5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Climate Change: Bus Reform

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:02 pm on 6 December 2022.

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Photo of Lee Waters Lee Waters Labour 4:02, 6 December 2022

Well, thank you to Carolyn Thomas for her continued championing of buses. It has been a neglected policy issue for too long, and not seen as fashionable, and I think it's time we changed that, and she's doing great work leading the cross-party group on public transport to that end. The question of how the cuts will impact is a very relevant and current one. I would say that what we're talking about in the White Paper and the Bill is about how we organise the system, and that system then can be flexed and it can be scaled. So, obviously, the more money we put into it, the better the services we're able to offer. But even if you simply put in what we're putting in now, we would still get a better, more planned, more joined-up, more coherent and fairer system. So, I think the argument for the system in the White Paper stands on its own merits, the question for public funding for buses is an allied one. And, as I said, the budget for next year is going to be very challenging for us to be able to sustain services, let alone expand them. And we'll be going through that when we publish the budget and we go through scrutiny. I and many others are concerned about that, but we will do our very best to preserve a network, as we have done over the last few years, through COVID, to allow that to be expanded when we have a more enlightened Government in Westminster.

In terms of the bulk fleet procurement point, it's a very interesting one. I'm quite concerned about the impact on SMEs. We know, in parts of rural Wales, that the small family bus operator has been key to the public transport ecosystem. That business model is coming under significant strain. Many operators are failing, local authorities are struggling to procure providers for key services. So, I think we are going to need to look creatively at how we fill that gap. The White Paper talks about an operator of last resort, just as we have currently on the trains, and the case for something equivalent on the buses. And one way we could de-risk small family businesses being able to participate could be the central procurement of the buses themselves, which we could then lease to an operator who could run the service for a fee. I think that's the sort of thing that we need to work through with local government and with the sector to understand the practicalities of that. But, Carolyn Thomas identifies a really important point.