Item 7 is next, the Food and Feed (Miscellaneous Amendments) (Wales) (EU Exit) Regulations 2022, and I call now on the Deputy Minister for Mental Health and Well-being to move the motion. Lynne Neagle.

Motion NDM8162 Lesley Griffiths

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 27.5:

1. Approves that the draft The Food and Feed (Miscellaneous Amendments) (Wales) (EU Exit) Regulations 2022 is made in accordance with the draft laid in the Table Office on 22 November 2022.

Motion moved.

Diolch, Llywydd. I move the motion. The regulations that we are debating today make amendments to domestic legislation applying in relation to Wales on food and feed safety and hygiene. These amendments are required to improve the clarity and accessibility of Welsh domestic food and feed safety and hygiene legislation following the withdrawal of the UK from the EU, and to correct references defining enforcement authorities in relation to animal feed. 

The Welsh Government's priority is to maintain the high standards of food safety and consumer protection we have established. Therefore, this instrument does not introduce any relaxation of the robust legal regime we have in Wales now. This instrument does not introduce any changes that will impact the day-to-day operation of food businesses, nor does it introduce any new regulatory burden. The essence of legislation is unchanged. 

At this point, I would like to thank the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee for their detailed report on the proposed instrument. I acknowledge and accept the five technical scrutiny points that have been identified. I will seek that these are rectified at the earliest opportunity. Of the points identified by the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, we will seek that two are rectified as correction slips, with the remaining three being rectified within another statutory instrument that is due to be laid during the first half of 2023.

As the scrutiny points do not have a substantive impact on the operability of this instrument, I would therefore ask that the proposed amendments in this instrument are supported, to avoid losing the powers in the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 required to make the majority of the amendments. These powers will expire on 31 December 2022.

Alternative powers are available for most provisions, with the exception that there are no alternative powers available to make regulation 4(8). This provision is a new regulation-making power for the Welsh Ministers to amend the lists of undesirable substances in relation to animal feed. Not proceeding with these proposed changes would create a period of divergence in terms of accessibility for the relevant legislation within Wales compared to England and Scotland until such time as it might be possible to bring the Welsh regulations into alignment with the other GB regulations. If approved, this instrument will come into force on 31 December 2022. Diolch.

Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee—Huw Irranca-Davies. 

Diolch, Llywydd. Thank you. 

In opening our remarks, I note that two of the arguments put forward by the Deputy Minister and also the Minister, in terms of the previous instrument in front of us, are, if not identical, very similar. One is that, in passing these instruments today, even with the defective aspects that we've identified, it wouldn't have an impact on the operability of this instrument on the ground, in effect, but secondly that failure to do so would result in a period of divergence from the rest of the UK in both this and the previous one.

However, we did consider these regulations on 5 December and we've had a chance to review the Government’s response to our report yesterday. We thank the Deputy Minister and her officials for providing your response to it. So, our report and the Welsh Government response are available via today’s Plenary agenda.

So, as the Deputy Minister has said, these regulations make amendments to subordinate legislation in the fields of food and feed safety and hygiene. Our report contained five technical reporting points, two of which relate to defective drafting and three of which highlight inconsistencies between the English and Welsh texts. And as the Deputy Minister has said, the Welsh Government has accepted all of the five points we've raised, and we recognise that, and that, we think, is a good way forward. But this means that the regulations we're now voting on this afternoon will need correcting in the future.

The Deputy Minister has confirmed to my committee that three of the points we have raised will need to be addressed via a further statutory instrument in the new year, and, Deputy Minister, you touched on that.

Llywydd, in the previous debate I mentioned that we'd written to the Minister for rural affairs in a fairly rapid and urgent fashion following our meeting yesterday in respect of the regulations we have only just debated. That letter was also addressed to the Deputy Minister, because there are similar issues, although not on the same scale, existing within these regulations. Now, I mentioned that the letter we received in response only arrived late this afternoon, so we're not fully able to asses what we've been told and explore it.

Deputy Minister, one of the things we asked you to confirm was which powers the Welsh Government has available to it to make the appropriate correcting statutory instruments you spoke of in the response we received to our report. You've told us that you can use powers in the Food Safety Act 1990 and the Agriculture Act 1970, so you have identified a way forward to make the correction. But, Deputy Minister, you'll understand for our committee it's of concern that you are unlikely to make these corrections until the first or the second quarter of 2023.

Deputy Minister, I also note that you have confirmed that only one provision in the regulations could not be made using alternative powers, if this instrument was withdrawn. I wonder if you can say a little bit more about that in your closing remarks, and also what thought you gave to using powers contained in—and I mentioned this before, this afternoon—the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 to permit the use of the urgent made affirmative procedure as a means of correcting the five points highlighted by the committee.

Llywydd, the Deputy Minister will also be seeking to make the adjustments needed to address the other two points in our report via correction slips. We will be writing to the Welsh Government, but, to give some advance notice, several Government responses to our reports in recent months have stated that correction slips will be sought from the registrar to address errors in regulation. So, we will be pushing on what guidance is used by Welsh Government and the registrar to determine what can and what cannot or should not be fixed in this way.

So, as I said in the previous debate, should Senedd Members accept the Welsh Government's arguments, the fact remains that the Senedd is being asked to pass a defective instrument, albeit the scale is somewhat different. So, Deputy Minister, I would also welcome any assurances from yourself that you, also, along with the Minister in the previous debate, will do all you can to ensure that a request to pass a defective instrument will not be put in front of the Senedd again. Thank you.

I'd just like to take this opportunity to ask the Deputy Minister, when you're reviewing this legislation in line with the request by the legislative and constitutional committee, to have a look at the labelling on baby food, because this has long been something that concerns me, because in the past it has certainly been raised with me that sugar is put into baby food, and salt. Both of these items should be absent from baby food, because neither of them are necessary if the food that's being presented as suitable for babies is decent food that doesn't need the addition of either sugar or salt. Very small children shouldn't eat either of them. So, I wondered if you could look at that as a specific, as to whether we need to tighten up the legislation on baby food, (a) so that we endeavour to ensure that the industry does not add either of these harmful items to products that they are marketing as suitable for infants, once they're ready to move on from milk—hopefully, breast milk. This is an opportunity to do that, so I'd be very grateful if you could confirm that in your response.

The Deputy Minister to reply. Lynne Neagle.

Diolch, Llywydd, and can I thank Huw Irranca-Davies for his contribution and also Jenny Rathbone for her contribution to the debate today? I'm also very happy to give the assurance that I will take what you've said away and do whatever I can to make sure that we aren't in this position again. So, you have my very firm commitment on that. As I've already highlighted, the instrument makes no changes to policy or how food and feed businesses are regulated, but I do accept that it's not ideal that you should have to highlight these points in the way that you have, and I will certainly take that forward.

Jenny, in relation to your points, I would have to follow up with you by letter on that as to whether this would be the appropriate vehicle to pursue the issues that you've raised, but I'm very happy to do that. Can I just reiterate my thanks to the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee for the report and reiterate my commitment to rectify the five technical scrutiny points at the earliest opportunity? As the errors are of a minor nature and do not substantively affect the operability of the proposed regulation or the operability of the legislation as amended, I would therefore ask that the proposed amendments in this instrument be supported. Diolch.

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? [Objection.] There is objection to this motion, and therefore we will defer voting on that motion under item 7 to voting time.

Voting deferred until voting time.