4. How does the Minister intend to support Welsh research and development in light of ongoing uncertainties with Horizon Europe? OQ58889

Welcome back. It is frustrating that political differences between the EU and UK have created continued uncertainty and the inability to resolve association with Horizon Europe. The UK Government has previously allocated £6.8 billion for EU programmes in this area to the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, without a separate Welsh Government allocation. We do have a range of support, including funding through our Horizon Europe unit, based in the Welsh European Funding Office, and Global Wales, plus the innovation strategy that is in development.

Thank you for for that response, Minister.

The UK Government recently announced a package of measures to support UK R&D amidst the continuing uncertainty over association with Horizon Europe. Within the package, as you've mentioned, is a pledge of £100 million quality-related funding for English universities, from which Wales will receive consequentials. It is important to highlight the fact that QR funding is unique in the sense that there are very few areas where Wales is directly competing against England, but universities are one of those areas competing for grants and students, both domestic and international. The loss of any funding reduces potential growth in Wales and increases the likelihood of brain drain. Welsh universities must have the same pro rata as English universities, if we are going to be able to compete for UK-wide funding, so is the Minister therefore willing to make assurances that any consequentials that come the Welsh Government's way will be ring-fenced for QR funding for Welsh universities?

So, the education Minister has already announced an increase in QR funding previously. When it comes to consequentials from this announcement, we are in active conversation with the UK Government to finalise the amount and the usage of that. There is always a challenge—and I understand why it's made—when there is an announcement made for a particular sector within England for exactly the same use to be applied here in Wales. Welsh Ministers will decide what to do, when we have finalised the amount coming, and we'll make that decision openly and transparently for Members and, indeed, people interested in this particular sector. But I'm very keen that we do see a return on that money that does not mean that Wales loses out in the money that's available. And I recognise the importance in this area of actually doing something to resolve the gap that has been left in research funding for universities as a result of the failure to resolve Horizon Europe.

Luke Fletcher is quite right to say the UK Government has announced that, if it is unable to associate with Horizon, then it will continue to support the research and innovation sector through transitional arrangements. This includes the UK guarantee scheme, which then provides funding to researchers and innovators unable to reach their Horizon Europe funding while the UK is in the process of associating to the programme. The UK Government provides over £8 billion-worth of funding support across five different schemes, including funds for industrial strategy and global challenges. And most recently, of course, we've seen the establishment of the Advanced Research and Invention Agency, set up with an initial £800 million investment to develop high-reward research. Now, by way of contrast, alongside Horizon, the Welsh Government offers just two additional research and innovation funds: Sêr Cymru and SCoRE Cymru. So, to point the finger at the UK Government, when they provide the overwhelming bulk of R&I funding, really isn't good enough. So, Minister, with this in mind, how will you be working with the UK Government to make sure that Wales does deliver on its own science funding commitments? Thank you.

There are a couple of different points I think that we should make. There is the fact that because replacement funds have not been made available, we are over £1 billion down over three years; that's a matter of fact, not opinion. That directly affects research, development and innovation funding. That's, again, an inescapable fact. When it comes to improving the return for Wales from UK funds, that's a point that I've discussed both with the sector here as well as with UK Ministers.

Now, when it comes to the points that the Member has made about ARIA and other aspects, those actually are supposed to deliver funds on a UK-wide basis. I had some quite difficult conversations with a number of different science Ministers in the UK Government about the creation of ARIA itself and how it would function, and making sure that there was a structure that directly involved chief scientific officers from around the UK and not being centrally driven with one point, because the challenge is that the way that a number of funds have previously been delivered, about high-quality and high-value scientific research, the golden triangle in England tends to do a great deal better than the rest of the UK, including English regions as well as Wales. I'm very clear about our need in the new innovation strategy to get more from those UK funding sources; it's part of the reason I've met with UK Research and Innovation, part of the reason I've met yet again recently with Innovate UK, and I'm optimistic that when we get to not just the new strategy, but the way in which decisions are made, we should see a better return for Wales.

The other thing that I think would help all of us is some stability at the UK level. I welcome George Freeman's return to being the science Minister; he is someone who I think has been constructive and someone who understands the sector. I think what's been unhelpful is that I think I am now on my fifth or sixth UK science Minister to have conversations with. We would all be better off if there was a period of welcome stability. Even if we disagree with the UK Government's perspective, actually having some stability there would be welcome for all of us.