Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:00 pm on 10 January 2023.
Well, thanks very much, Russell, and a happy new year to you as well. Just in terms of how we compare to England, and I think it's really important, let's look at the figures here, because the Nuffield Trust—this is not us as a Welsh Government—the Nuffield Trust tells us that we spend more on health and care than they do in England, okay? So, if you look at the figures in Wales, we are spending 5 per cent more than England—that was pre COVID—and 30 per cent more than England if you include social care. So, don't talk to us about spending more compared to England. We are doing that; we do need to do that because we've got an older and sicker population. But the fact is it's really important that we talk, not just in general terms, but let's look at the facts, not produced by us but by an independent, acknowledged expert group. Part of the reason we're in this situation—and if you want to start playing politics, I'll play politics as well—is that we have had 10 years of austerity and that has starved us, compared to what was going on previous to that under Labour. It was a policy. It was a deliberate policy. Austerity was a policy. And do you know what, the real frustration of those people who are on the front line today—[Interruption.] The real frustration is that they were promised, they were told, 'Take a dose of austerity, but it'll be okay at the end of that', and the problem is that that bargain has just been broken, and that is part of the reason we're in the situation we're in today. And if you look at the number of GPs we have in Wales, we have more. According to the Nuffield Trust, we have 63 per 100,000 compared to 57 per 100,000 in England.
And you talk about preparing. My God did we prepare for this winter. We spent months and months and months preparing for this. And you talk about planning: we have planned. We had a transformation plan, we had the six goals for urgent and emergency care, and as a result of that, we now have the 111 service that has been rolled out across the whole of Wales, diverting only 20 per cent of the people who call to emergency services. Just imagine how many of them would have gone directly to A&E before. We have urgent primary care centres across the whole of Wales, we have same-day emergency care centres, we have pharmacies and we have—. And we've done this week after week. Every fortnight, Julie Morgan and I have been meeting with the leaders of local authorities to prepare for these 500 additional beds that are in the community. This is not something we've thought up now. They made an announcement yesterday in England on this. Yesterday. That's not going to be ready for months, because I can tell you that we have worked really, really hard to make this happen. They are in place in Wales. Proportionately, they're not nearly as ambitious as we have been in Wales. Not just ambition, but we've already delivered them and we are going to be delivering more. And do you know what's more? Do you know what's more is that, actually, we've now got health trusts in England asking to come and see and to learn from our six goals for urgent and emergency care? That is the reality in terms of us being prepared, and we have got a transformation plan. It's not going to be switched overnight, but it is already making a difference.
And you ask about waiting lists: well, just before Christmas, I'm sure you were as pleased as I was that, at last, the waiting lists are going down in Wales. They had gone down for the first time since the pandemic, and they're going up in England. Let's just be absolutely clear—[Interruption.] Let's just look at the facts—and I'd suggest that you go and do that.
You talk about winter war rooms, well, I can tell you, I feel like I'm in a constant winter war room when it comes to the NHS. Every fortnight we've been meeting to identify where exactly in the system the blockages are, what are we going to do about it, what do we put in place. I spent the day in the Heath hospital last Friday. It was fascinating to watch them identify exactly, 'Right, where is the problem, how do we get these people out, what is the blockage?' So, there's a lot of that that's already going on, and I can tell you that there is very sophisticated data that is being used to make sure that we improve the situation.
You keep on banging on about surgical hubs. I've been to the surgical hub that already exists in Abergele; I've been to the surgical hub that already exists in Llanelli; and I've been to the surgical hub that already exists in Cardiff, in the Vanguard hub where they're doing ophthalmology. They're happening, they exist, and they're seeing patients already. So, we are on it; it is happening. There's a long way to go, but it's really important, I think, for people to understand that we are getting through these waiting lists, and ours are going down while they're going up in England.