6. Statement by the Minister for Finance and Local Government: Diversity in Democracy — Survey Results

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:30 pm on 10 January 2023.

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Photo of Llyr Gruffydd Llyr Gruffydd Plaid Cymru 5:30, 10 January 2023

(Translated)

Thank you to the Minister for her statement. I think what we need to do at the outset is to thank those individuals who have put themselves forward to be advocates for their communities, although perhaps they don't feel that that's what it is, particularly in the current climate of having to make cuts to services and so on. Certainly, nobody goes into local government to do that. But, it does of course contribute to that feeling of negativity that surrounds these roles, unfortunately, and the way that the broader community—the perception that the broader community has of what some of these councillors do. But, whether we agree or not with their politics, we have to recognise that they have been willing to step up and to take that responsibility and that they are doing it for the very best reasons, whether we agree or not with the final decisions. 

But, this expectation of being available 24/7, we can identify with that, but we are professionals. We're well paid to do this as a full-time role. But, as you say, people are expected to do this on top of work commitments and family commitments. We still have some councils that meet at times of the day that aren't appropriate for people to contribute as we would wish to see. So, there is a long way to go and there's a lot that needs to be dealt with. And if you consider the situation in terms of remuneration, yes, that needs to be done, as you said in your statement. I'm sure that we'd all accept that £100 or £200 in addition won't resolve the problem, and that brings us to the nub of the issue, I think. I do believe we need to look at more structural issues in terms of local government—county councils as well as town and community councils—rather than just looking at a few interventions to make improvements in diversity and representation. 

There is a lack of clarity in terms of the role of councils. Certainly, that suggests to me that the system isn't working properly. Failing to connect with the local town council, the fact that there are so many vacant seats, so many uncontested seats, that screams out to me that we need to tackle that level of local government in Wales. So, my question is: how much willingness is there within Government to look at more structural interventions in terms of local government in Wales, particularly at that level of town and community councils? Do we need to look at empowering them to attract more to contribute to them, to share the burden, perhaps, across the various levels of local government? And I can hear county councils, perhaps, complaining about that, but we need to have the debate about where many of these responsibilities lie.

There's no consistency in Wales in terms of community councils. We have 70 and 80 in some counties and none at all in others. Some have a precept of £1,000 or £2,000 a year, and then somewhere like Barry, I think, represents a population that is almost as large as Merthyr Tydfil County Borough Council. So, I think we need to consider some sort of reset in terms of that level of local government. And, as part of that process, we can be a lot more proactive in introducing these interventions. We've accepted the principles in terms of the reform of the Senedd here—that we want to move to an electoral system that does ensure more equal representation in terms of men and women. Well, if that principle holds for the Senedd, then surely the same principles should hold for local government. Is the Government willing to consider some sort of steps similar to that? I would be pleased to hear your response to that. 

You talk of a task and finish group on democratic health, and of course, we will support the work of such a group, but can you expand on the remit of that task and finish group? To what extent will they be looking at these broader issues, or will they simply focus on encouraging some interventions in isolation? I don't think that that necessarily is going to turn the situation around in the way that we would want to see. We, of course, do need to challenge any attitudes that normalise bullying or the harassment of councillors—misogyny, racism, homophobia; they are all elements that we must take action to eradicate. It was very disappointing to see some of the evidence saying that some people felt that it was difficult to raise these issues, that it was difficult to ensure that inquiries were made. And for me, that rings some alarm bells in terms of the need to tackle that. But, we will support the Government, but I would like to see a broader commitment and a more structured commitment to tackle some of these problems, rather than trying to deal with a few issues at a time. Thank you.