Item 6 is next, debate on the Local Government and Housing Committee Report, 'Community Assets'. I call on the Chair of the committee to move the motion—John Griffiths.

Motion NDM8170 John Griffiths

To propose that the Senedd:

Notes the report of the Local Government and Housing Committee, ‘Community Assets’, which was laid in the Table Office on 13 October 2022.

Motion moved.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'm pleased to open today's debate on the Local Government and Housing Committee's report on community assets. I would like to start by thanking all those who contributed to our inquiry, in particular those groups involved in the community assets we visited: Maindee Unlimited, Abergavenny Community Centre, Market Hall Cinema in Brynmawr, Antur Nantlle, Ty'n Llan, and Partneriaeth Ogwen. It was very useful indeed for us to meet with these groups to hear directly of their first-hand experiences. Their evidence helped us to better understand the benefits of community ownership, but also some of the challenges and barriers faced by communities.

Community assets make a big contribution to the lives of the people living in those communities that they serve. There are many different types of assets across Wales and many ways in which these can make a difference to people’s lives and their well-being. They can be buildings, such as community centres, leisure centres, libraries and pubs, which act as hubs for their local areas and where people can access information, services, learn new skills, come together to socialise and to share experiences. They can be places, such as parks and green spaces, where people can relax or exercise and children can play; they can even provide homes for people.

In Wales, we can be proud of the great enthusiasm and commitment demonstrated by communities across the country to maintaining local assets and ensuring their sustainability. We heard that people want to be involved in running community projects to make sure they can access amenities in their local areas, now and in the future. However, maintaining a community asset isn’t an easy task. As well as enthusiasm and commitment, plenty of time and money are also needed. We would like to make it easier for local groups to be able to get involved in running assets that are right for their communities. In our report, we made 16 recommendations, which we believe will help to maximise opportunities for greater community empowerment. Eight of those recommendations have been accepted in full and seven accepted in principle by the Welsh Government. One was rejected.

Our overarching recommendation was that the Welsh Government should establish a commission to stimulate innovative thinking on community ownership of land and assets in Wales. The evidence we heard demonstrated a need for further explanation of some issues, therefore, we recommended that such work could be undertaken by this commission. The Minister for Climate Change had already indicated that she was minded to establish such a commission, yet the recommendation is only accepted in principle. I would, therefore, like to ask the Minister to elaborate on the reasons for not accepting the recommendation in full. The Welsh Government’s written response suggested that the 12-month timescale we recommended for establishing that body may be problematic. I would, therefore, like to ask the Minister to provide more detail on the amount of time needed to establish a commission. Cwmpas have already called for a commission, and we know that other committed stakeholders are ready and willing to get involved in the necessary work. So, as a committee, we do think that work should be able to start quite quickly.

Dirprwy Lywydd, as I’ve mentioned, several of our other recommendations refer to work that we believe could be undertaken by a commission, including exploring with stakeholders the package of support that should be available to community groups who wish to run a community asset. It isn't an easy process, and groups will need different support, depending on their circumstances. And, of course, some communities may have ready access to people with the skills, knowledge and experience needed, whilst others will need to draw on external support. Whatever their circumstances, we want all communities to have the opportunity to take forward projects.

Although there are already various sources of advice and support available, we heard that these are not easily accessible, especially to newly established groups who will be less familiar with arrangements. The Welsh Government's response refers to some of the sources of information, but doesn't address the accessibility of it. We believe it's important to learn from the experiences of people directly involved in running community assets to ensure that the right advice and support are accessed, which is why we believe a commission of experts would be best placed to take this forward. When the Minister for Finance and Local Government gave evidence to us, she referred to the work being done by the Welsh Government on a new community policy, including whether a central hub for advice and information is needed. We believe the evidence presented to us has demonstrated a clear need for such a provision, and, therefore, I would ask the Minister to explain why our recommendation was not accepted in full.

We heard of the challenges often faced by groups acquiring privately owned assets. It takes time for newly formed groups to establish themselves and secure funding, and it can be difficult to compete against private individuals or businesses with access to finance. Several witnesses told us that communities in Wales have far fewer powers than those in Scotland and England. A community right to buy has been in place in Scotland since 2003, and English communities have a right to bid on assets through the Localism Act 2011. Time has moved on, and we're concerned that Welsh communities are being deprived of similar powers.

We also recommended that a commission should explore whether legislation is needed to empower communities and give them equal opportunity when competing against private investors to purchase assets of interest. So, we do believe that the establishment of a commission is key to taking forward several of our recommendations and those made by notable stakeholders, including Cwmpas and the Institute of Welsh Affairs. It is therefore crucial that work to establish a commission begins as a matter of urgency, so that Welsh communities do not miss out on opportunities to acquire and run assets that can enhance the well-being of their local populations.

We are disappointed that our recommendation to establish a community land fund for Wales has been rejected. Similar funds exist in Scotland and England, and several stakeholders called for a fund here in Wales.

As a committee, we are deeply concerned by the increasing evidence we hear around the difficulties people across Wales face in securing accommodation to rent or buy. We believe that community-led housing provides an opportunity for communities to provide their own housing solutions. While this will not be a viable option for everyone, we would like to see processes streamlined so that communities can access the land and funding they need to build appropriate homes. The Welsh Government's response refers to the social housing grant, which community-led groups can access if they partner with a registered social landlord. We are concerned that this approach has not maximised opportunities for community groups, and I ask the Welsh Government to reconsider its response to this recommendation.

Dirprwy Lywydd, access to affordable housing is a very important issue to us as a committee, and I'm sure to all of us in the Senedd and people across Wales. As a committee, we will be returning to this during the term of the sixth Senedd to see how our recommendations are being progressed. Diolch yn fawr.

Can I first put on record my thanks to the Chairman of the committee, John Griffiths, for his chairmanship and work in producing today's committee report, alongside my committee colleagues, the Ministers who gave evidence, the clerks, the committee's support team, of course, and the raft of organisations who provided evidence for the report we're considering here today?

And as in the Chairman's foreword to today's committee report on community assets, they make such a big contribution to the lives of people who live in our communities, and I think sometimes we forget about that and, sadly, we only remember that when it's too late, when those really important community buildings, assets, pieces of land are no longer available to our communities. I think it's important for all of us to take a moment and to consider those assets that are in our communities, amongst those people who we represent, to make sure they're being best used for our communities.

Throughout our committee work, we found that there many different types of community assets across Wales, all of which bring immense benefits to the people we represent and their well-being. Those assets ranging from libraries to pubs, which we all seem to appreciate, community centres, and then we have to get ourselves down to the leisure centres as well. But such a range of these community assets make a difference. I think it's part of the challenge, when we talk about community assets, with such a broad group of things that we could be talking about here. But they are often crucial hubs in local areas, allowing people to learn new skills, come together, to socialise, to remove some of those barriers from people's lives that prevent them from meeting and being with friends. They are important for local communities in making sure that opportunities for community empowerment are maximised as well.

I was pleased to see Welsh Government accepting recommendation 2, calling on them to review and update existing guidance on community asset transfers. I think this is welcome, because there does seem to be some significant inconsistency across Wales, but also, at times, within local authorities when it comes to those asset transfers. I was also pleased that recommendation 12, which calls on the Welsh Government to establish a community asset fund, was accepted within there as well.

Of course, a key aspect of ensuring the importance and success of community assets is sharing good practice. I'll just take a few moments to focus on that sharing of good practice, because it's something that came up time and time again when, as committee members, we visited a number of these community-run assets. I had the privilege of going along to a few of these places, including Antur Nantlle, Ty'n Llan and Partneriaeth Ogwen as well, all of which had some great experience and expertise in that community asset transfer process, but all of which also said that they would like to work more closely with other organisations who've gone through similar experiences, to understand, to learn and to share some of that best practice. Because these organisations who have done it once have been through the pain, they know where the pitfalls are and are more than willing to share and work with others, because it can be quite daunting, of course, when it comes to looking to take a community asset on. So, I think there's a piece of work there that needs to be understood more, and making sure we're linking together those who've been through that experience with those who want to go through that experience as well.

We talked about the number of obstacles and challenges that face local communities when they attempt to assume control of these community assets, and, as stated by the Institute of Welsh Affairs, Welsh communities appear to be among the least empowered in Great Britain, with the limited system that is present being

'entirely driven by a top-down approach.'

There's also a concern across some local authorities—[Interruption.] Yes, sure.

Just very briefly, do you share my concern that the Welsh Government has failed to use the powers available to it since the introduction of the UK's Localism Act 2011 to introduce a community asset register and a community right to bid, to help tackle that top-down approach you refer to?

Yes, I think it is a real concern, and it's something that we as a committee looked into, and we're hoping the Welsh Government would be keen to look at further themselves as well. And I think, Mark Isherwood, you were absolutely right to raise it here this afternoon.

But there's also a concern across some local authorities in Wales that many are reluctant to give away or transfer their assets. I think, sometimes, rather than an asset transfer, what often takes place is a liability transfer, which is the completely wrong attitude from many local authorities. So, I welcomed seeing recommendation 4, which makes it clear that the community asset transfer process is not only applicable to local authorities, but also to all public bodies. I think there's a great opportunity across public bodies to make sure those asset transfers are taking place effectively. 

Just moving towards closing, Deputy Presiding Officer, it's clear that more needs to be done in facilitating greater power and collaboration for local communities, with local people being best placed to understand and handle local issues. I believe that there is a real need for urgency now to progress these recommendations. Public bodies, we know, are likely to face a challenging time ahead of us, during which use of assets and management of assets will be an important part of future planning. I am confident that our communities are ready, able and willing to take on these assets, but need the right tools and support. I would like to thank, once again, all those who contributed to this important report on community assets in Wales. I am looking forward to seeing these recommendations implemented as quickly as possible. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

May I make a declaration of interest that I am a shareholder in many community initiatives, which is on the public record? Thank you for the opportunity to contribute to this debate this afternoon. As you know, I introduced a motion before the summer of last year on empowering communities—a motion that was passed by this Senedd. But, despite the fact that we had agreed on a way forward as a Senedd, the truth is that very little has happened, and things aren’t likely to happen soon either.

It was wonderful to be part of this inquiry, chaired by John Griffiths, and to visit some of the community initiatives in place. I take pride in the fact that Dwyfor Meirionnydd is in the vanguard when it comes to developing community initiatives, and that we have a very proud history of this in Gwynedd, with the latest news, for example, that Menter y Glan in Pennal has succeeded in raising the necessary funding as a community to purchase the Glan yr Afon pub. So, congratulations to them.

Indeed, all of this can be taken back to the UK’s first community enterprise, established in Llanaelhaearn—the Aelhaearn enterprise, formed by the late and incomparable Dr Carl Clowes and the residents of the area. Although Wales led the way in this area in the 1970s, it saddens me that we are now so far behind, particularly in looking to Scotland and England and the legislative powers that communities have there when it comes to the ownership of community assets and developing co-operatives in those areas.

This inquiry was interesting because of the wealth of evidence that it’s drawn together showing clearly the benefits of promoting these community enterprises. For example, communities that suffer more deprivation but have higher levels of community assets have better health and well-being outcomes, higher employment rates and lower levels of child poverty, as compared with deprived areas that don’t have high levels of community assets or community action.

This corresponds with research carried out by the Building Communities Trust, in collaboration with the Oxford Consultants for Social Inclusion. The results suggest that deprived areas with community assets are less likely to be identified as those being at risk. So, in other words, deprived communities that have community assets are usually more robust than those communities that don’t have these assets. There is hard evidence to support that too.   

Another thing that’s worth mentioning here is what was made clear in our evidence session, namely to what extent support and advice is available to those community groups that are trying to take on a community asset. Ultimately, the support is a long way from being adequate. It is by no means consistent, and varies across Wales. The groups in the sector have told us that they need that additional support to be available free of charge.

I would like to rehearse the call for the register of community assets to look at nurturing community skills. We need to develop some of those softer skills that are required within community groups to facilitate the ongoing running of assets, particularly in developing and transferring assets.

The report mentioned the need for the creation of a commission. Personally, I would favour legislation, but the Government has made it clear that it will not legislate in this area, despite the fact that it has been a manifesto commitment since 2006. In the absence of legislation, the commission is to be welcomed, but it truly needs to be established soon, and to see action taken soon.

As we face austerity 2.0, the very real risk is that our county councils will be tempted by fire sales of their assets in order to bring funding into the coffers, which will mean that more assets will be lost and communities will be disempowered further. So, in the response to this debate, I would like to hear the Government committing to hasten the establishment of the commission and provide a clear timetable for the commission before we lose more assets and lose real opportunities to empower our communities.

On a final note on housing and community leadership, there’s no need to say that strengthening community rights can help to grow community housing movements. The Welsh Government needs to assist communities in getting over barriers to make housing led by the community a popular form of housing, which happens in most European nations. By introducing legislation that enables community ownership of land and assets, communities can provide affordable homes that are safe in this climate, more efficient, and are developed by and with local people to meet local needs and the needs of future generations. Thank you.

I would like also to thank the Chair and committee staff who put together this report and organised visits across Wales, and to all those who contributed. Community facilities can empower communities and ensure that nobody gets left behind. They can help with sustainability and well-being. Community halls, pubs, playing fields and other areas should be protected for people and nature, such as Penrhos nature reserve in Anglesey or the old school field in Llanfynydd in Flintshire, which has just had an asset transfer. Community energy, community foods and community houses are all great initiatives that need further encouragement and investment. A great example is Partneriaeth Ogwen in Bethesda, which we visited as a committee, owning an office, shops, flats, businesses, a community library, electric vehicles, a bike repair scheme, community allotments and a community hydro scheme. It’s amazing what they’ve achieved there.

Community wealth is massive and immeasurable. Canolfan Beaumaris is a community-run leisure centre and community transport enterprise, and they’re currently advertising for staff. It’s working on its five-year plan, looking to be a centre for well-being now, rather than just being classed as a sports hall, which shows how things have moved on. Rural communities are often more greatly impacted because they do not have the same access to public services, shops and facilities, but people are often more known to each other. This was the driving force of the community taking on Ty’n Llan, I believe. For some people, the only regular person they would see would be the postman or postwoman, and that may no longer happen should Royal Mail’s dreadful proposals succeed.

The UK Government’s failure to replace important EU structural funds will impact many communities and third sector groups. It helps fund investment in village halls, innovation, community energy schemes, community agriculture, community transport, and acted as seed funding for community events. I was a member of Cadwyn Clwyd and that funding was really, really welcome. The Welsh Government’s community facilities programme funding is very welcome, and continues to make a huge difference. It would be great to see the aggregates levy fund for Wales restored, especially now that quarries that were once mothballed are being brought back into use, and quarry lorries are impacting communities that are not used to seeing them anymore. The Welsh Government’s community asset loan fund distributed through the WCVA is also really important, and it was raised how difficult it is to get loans from banks. In particular, a loan through the WCVA was welcome but quite high; I think it was at 6 per cent then, it’s probably a lot more now. Maybe it’s an area for Banc Cambria to help with.

In Flintshire there’s a really good policy for community asset transfer, and there have been many successes, but it’s not consistent right across Wales. Perhaps it would be good if there were some national guidelines and a network to enable community groups to share experience, perhaps like a website or something. A commission has been proposed and could stimulate innovative thinking on community ownerships, and also register or map community assets. Quite often at committee we have discussed the importance of cadastral mapping, which would help regarding community assets, supporting social housing, creating areas for wildlife, and also possibly land value tax, should that go forward. Ystadau Cymru was mentioned, but I think it needs to be better promoted, because I hadn’t really heard of it before.

Community social enterprises are places where wealth is shared, not stored in banks, and where happiness and well-being should be the measure of success. And they are—we saw that. But they cannot totally replace public services. Core funding and leadership is essential, and we saw that. We went out to communities that had somebody who was leading all these great initiatives. They can be just as vulnerable as other public services, especially under this present cost-of-living crisis. Thank you.

I'd like to start by echoing the comments already made, and thanking John Griffiths for bringing this to debate and for all the work he does as Chair of the committee.

As someone who has spoken numerous times in this Chamber about how important it is to protect our natural heritage, to protect buildings of community importance even if they do not meet Cadw's overly strict criteria, and to protect our churches and repurpose buildings for community use, I can say that I wholeheartedly support the recommendations of this report. I believe that the effulgence of the nation comes from the pride that people have for where they live. The sad truth is that, in Wales, we have lost many significant cultural and community assets because of failure to recognise their value to the community and to the wider well-being of the nation. The Institute of Welsh Affairs has even said of Welsh communities that they appear to be some of the least empowered on this island, and this is a really sad state of affairs. As Members of this Chamber, we therefore owe it to the people of Wales to change this. 

Whilst the Government has accepted almost all of these recommendations, I do feel that there needs to be a greater emphasis on empowering communities to recognise what is of value to them, to think about what is part of their identity, and to encourage them to play a pivotal role in protecting those assets that they want to see handed down to future generations. We can talk forever about how community asset transfers are a fantastic way of helping communities come together and for developing social bonds and a sense of identity, but if communities aren't aware of what rights and mechanisms are available to them, then they can be easily put off from trying to save their community assets. 

Moreover, the Government needs to be encouraging local authorities and current asset owners to be sympathetic towards communities during the community asset transfer process. Likewise, we need to offer more protections to communities where privately and publicly owned community assets are in danger of being demolished. We have to be aware that many people who will be making asset transfer applications may have no experience whatsoever of dealing with the legal processes involved, and the whole process may be quite intimidating for them.  

We also need to make sure that communities have a much better idea of the due diligence that is needed when managing an asset, and that legal and professional help is available for them to have well-prepared business plans that lay out how they will manage the asset long term, financial and otherwise, and that communities understand fully their responsibilities. Whilst the Government has accepted in principle the setting up of a commission to help to do this, there is no current financial provision, and under these times of financial pressure, I'm not convinced that the Government will be able to find the money needed anytime soon. Therefore, in the meantime I think it's important that those looking to make community asset transfers should be able to access more funding from local authorities. 

I don't feel the need to expand on the recommendations in this report further because I feel that they speak for themselves, but I would like to emphasise that I'm glad to see that the Government has taken on the recommendations, and I look forward to seeing them actioned. Thank you. 

It's fitting that I follow the contribution of colleague Joel James as the Chair of the Senedd Petitions Committee that Joel also sits on. It's in that capacity today, Presiding Officer, that I wish to say a few words, focusing on a petition entitled, 'Help Welsh Communities Buy Community Assets: Implement Part 5 Chapter 3 of the Localism Act 2011'. It called on 

'the next Welsh Government to immediately introduce the provisions of Part 5 Chapter 3 of the Localism Act 2011 to ensure groups in Wales have the legal right to buy & manage community assets.'

Llywydd, this petition was submitted by Dan Evans and received 655 signatures. The last time we considered the petition as a committee, we noted this inquiry and the report from the Local Government and Housing Committee, and we agreed that we would highlight the petition and what it stands for in this debate today. It looks at community assets in a broad sense, but there have also been a number of petitions that we've considered as a committee seeking to specifically preserve local buildings, for example Cowbridge Girls School or Coleg Harlech.

Every single one of us in our communities will have a building that doesn't make enough money for its owner, a building that has become perhaps too costly to maintain, but nonetheless holds that cherished place in the hearts of our residents and the people who live in our communities. Presiding Officer, in February of last year we debated the Cowbridge Girls School petition. I argued that it was far too difficult for passionate and committed local people to buy community assets and that there must be more that all of us in this very Chamber can do to support them.

I am particularly pleased to read the Local Government and Housing Committee's report towards the end of last year, and the 16 recommendations that they have made, to drive the higher level of support, and I am pleased that the Welsh Government has accepted the majority of these recommendations and engaged with the spirit of those recommendations that it didn't accept in full. But if I may, Presiding Officer, I would urge the Minister to look again at some of those recommendations where the committee is calling for action within 12 months and the Government is saying, and I quote again, 'Resources will not support it'. I'm willing to accept—I'm quite a practical person, I believe—and I'm willing to accept that the practical considerations of these recommendations sometimes mean that 'within 12 months' might mean 13, 14 or 15 months. But I would welcome the Minister setting a practical and real deliverable target for this type of work to ensure that it does happen for the people of these local communities who really do cherish these buildings, and setting it out as realistically as possible, and that it isn't kicked into the long grass so that we see another petition in 17, 18 months in the future that needn't be. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Thank you very much to the committee and the Chair for bringing this debate forward today and for this important report.

Our communities have faced hardship after hardship in recent years, following over a decade of austerity from the Conservatives in Westminster, then we had Brexit, then the pandemic, and now this pervasive cost-of-living crisis. Yet, above all, we have seen that kindness in our communities has prevailed. Wales is rich not just in terms of resources or talent but in our communities. We have to foster this and ensure that we are doing all in our power so that our communities can flourish; so that services are not only provided, but become excellent services where local knowledge and skills are maximised for the community benefit.

This is why I not only welcome the recommendations of this committee report, but believe that we need to go further to empower our communities. I appreciate Welsh Government largely accepting the recommendations of the report, but I do regret the areas where the communities will be let down due to lack of commitment. For example, where Welsh Government have rejected the commitment to make a specific Welsh fund available for community housing projects. This is available for communities in England and Scotland, yet not ours here in Wales. Despite the Minister for Climate Change already stating that she is minded to agree to the establishment of a commission to stimulate innovative thinking on community ownership and assets in Wales, it is a shame, therefore, that this recommendation has only been accepted so far in principle due to current resourcing not supporting development within the recommended time frame. A common theme in this debate—and I'll reiterate the question—is: when can we expect the establishment of such a commission, if the Minister clearly acknowledges the value in it? Delaying this commission will only cause further delays in exploring a community right to buy, as recommended in the report. The lack of legislation in this area is already frustrating, compared to right-to-buy legislation in England and Scotland. Our communities are at a huge disadvantage, at the whim of individuals who can change their mind at any point, and having to compete with market forces, even in cases where there may be clear social value in prioritising community ownership.

Until we enact a community right to buy, we are leaving our communities in a situation where they may spend significant time, effort and money for it all to be potentially wasted. This is not fair on individuals, communities or local organisations, who commit themselves to the land, to buildings or facilities within their communities. Empowering our communities is not only about putting the Government-backing legislation in place, however, but also ensuring that the support and financing is available and accessible for communities to flourish. In this sense, the report clearly highlights that there are significant issues regarding community asset transfers. I agree that there is a need here to learn from best practice and encourage the creation of peer networks so that discrepancies between local authorities are minimised. For example, the Welsh Local Government Association discusses the approach of one council where the council's website includes guidance, online templates, detailed building descriptions and a single point of contact for information, all aimed at helping to ensure the smooth transfer of assets. Generally though, improved guidance is needed. To hear some local authorities have no public-facing policy on community asset transfers was seriously concerning, and, moving forward, we have to ensure that we have universal guidance across local authorities that also has some room for flexibility. It has to be proportionate to the scale of the transfer to give our communities a fair chance.

Finally, I'd like to end by noting how asset transfers and community ownership are so much more than what they could bring in financial value or in cost saving. They have a real ability to improve community life and well-being, and to bring social value while empowering and uniting our communities. Let's give our communities an opportunity by guaranteeing a right to regenerate themselves, a right to run themselves, and a right to buy those community assets that they have invested so much time and energy into over the years. Diolch yn fawr.

Thanks to the committee, its members, the clerking team and witnesses for this very important report. I've really enjoyed following the inquiry, and I agree with many of the points that it contains. As today's report reminds us, the purpose of asset transfers is, of course, to ensure that assets that are really important to a local community can remain within that community. Sometimes, this is a consequence of a decade of Tory austerity. Paddling pools in my constituency in Abercynon, Aberdare, Mountain Ash, Penrhiwceiber and Ynysybwl are now run by community groups, providing opportunities that would otherwise have been removed, but also serving as building blocks to create something bigger and better.

The Institute for Community Studies makes that point in its evidence that communities provided that extra factor. I was proud last year to officially open the new Aquadare Splashpad and to have supported Lee Gardens Pool group as they've embarked on developing their infrastructure after community asset transfer, and really adding value to their local communities.

I think it's this point about groups being able to take on an asset to the next stage that shines a spotlight on just why this is so important. Again, a few case studies from the Cynon Valley: St Mair's was a council-run day centre in Aberdare that was successfully asset transferred over to Age Connects Morgannwg. Now, as Cynon Linc, and thanks to Welsh Government funding, it serves as a community hub offering a whole range of services and facilities, housing a GP surgery, charities and an excellent cafe. Cylch Meithrin Seren Fach took over a disused building in Mountain Ash, transforming it into a welcoming space for children and families and expanding the Welsh-medium learning through play they can offer. And A.S.D. Rainbows have taken over a community centre in Perthcelyn to develop their vision to extend the support they provide to children and their families and to provide a much-needed asset being brought back for the local community.

The committee's report succinctly evidences why we need these with, for example, the Bevan Foundation noting that asset transfers can actually drive economic development. I was also struck by the evidence from Building Communities Trust that less wealthy areas that contain lots of these community assets, driven by community ownership, have, and I quote,

'better health and wellbeing outcomes, higher rates of employment and lower levels of child poverty' than those without. 

So, the social justice aspect of this question is undeniable. As the report makes clear, allied to the desire for a community to take over an asset must be processes and support so that the vision can be realised. In light of all the positive examples I've mentioned from my constituency, it's welcome but not a surprise to see the many references in the report to best practice, put in place by Rhondda Cynon Taf County Borough Council. The WLGA notes RCT as one of the good examples of a council putting infrastructure and information in place that leads to, and I quote, 'the smooth transfer of assets'. A single point of contact, a comparatively large officer team, and readily available guidance are noted as elements of this. As paragraph 59 of the report makes clear, the transfer process must not become too bureaucratic. Appropriately robust mechanisms must be put in place, but they shouldn't become a deterrent, and I'm pleased to see that the Coalfields Regeneration Trust makes this point in their evidence, as I know that the group has been a key driver to supporting these transfers in my constituency.

Many of the examples I have cited have referred to transfers from the public sector but, as the report reminds us, there are distinct challenges when the asset is privately owned. I'm dealing with one case at the moment, working closely with the Cwmbach Community Wetlands group as they look to take over privately owned land. The group's dedicated volunteers are using a number of innovative solutions to drive the transfer forward, such as issuing very popular community shares. However, they are encountering difficulties around volunteer time and knowledge. In part, I think solutions could be provided by the development of a peer network—as both Cwmpas and the Coalfields Regeneration Trust noted in their evidence—to share ideas, to share expertise, and to share what works and what doesn't. The positive response from the Welsh Government to these recommendations is welcome. However—and this point was again cited in the report—such support must be ongoing and not just provided when an asset is initially transferred. Things can go wrong, but access to the right information can help communities to get things back on track. Diolch.

I call on the Minister for Climate Change, Julie James.

Diolch, Dirprwy Llywydd. Can I begin my contribution by thanking John Griffiths for his committee's really hard work in putting this together and then for bringing the motion forward today, and also thank all Members for their contributions to this very important debate? This is clearly a topic that people feel very passionately about.

Community assets have featured in debates in this Chamber on a number of occasions this year, clearly reflecting the importance of assets and services delivered within communities. And the communities themselves are, of course, one of our greatest assets in Wales, and central to our policies and our commitments in the programme for government. Our communities policy board continues to develop policy to empower our communities in key policy areas. Their current work will help us to ensure that we have identified the right community stakeholders to feed into this specific work around community ownership of assets.

Land and property assets enable our communities to have more control over services and facilities within their communities and are of huge importance to the foundational economy. I therefore warmly welcome the report and the recommendations from the Local Government and Housing Committee. I and my Cabinet colleagues, Rebecca Evans and Jane Hutt, have accepted, in principle or in actuality, the majority of the recommendations, as everyone has reflected. We have rejected only one, and that was recommendation 14—as a number of people have mentioned—that we'd establish a specific a Welsh fund for community housing projects. And the rejection is because we think our current approach is already designed to meet the objective of the recommendation. The reason we think that is because we are following the independent review of affordable housing supply recommendations from 2019 that we streamline programmes for affordable housing, and I accepted that recommendation. So, we've taken action to progress that recommendation and continue to explore ways to make funding available specifically for community-led housing developments.

Currently, we are working closely with Cwmpas on a scheme for a community land trust in Swansea. If their application for funding from the land and buildings development fund is successful, my officials will then assure that this mechanism can be used much more widely to support community-led housing projects. The fund offers an opportunity for community-led groups to access funding for early-stage work, such as site feasibility studies and option appraisals, which we have heard is a particular barrier they face. And I look forward to being able to report progress to committee, as that pilot develops. I strongly believe that partnership working is the way forward. By working in partnership with registered social landlords, community-led housing groups can also access a social housing grant. This approach also gives the community group access to the technical and professional expertise that they otherwise struggle to secure.

Turning to the other committee recommendations, they are clearly very far reaching. Our support package for community groups is a framework of guidance, funding and other support, much of which is provided by third sector partners, such as Cwmpas, the Wales Council for Voluntary Action and the Community Land Advisory Service. The recommendation that a commission be established to look in more depth at some of the barriers on how we give support recognises the complexity and importance of communities being involved in ownership or management of assets in their communities. And a little later, I will discuss the need to consider the form and scope of the commission and to consider who its support arrangements will draw on and who will be the most important stakeholders. We fully support our communities where ownership is appropriate, but this isn't always the best option, especially in economically challenging times. Alternative models can be equally empowering and by accepting the recommendations that we establish a peer network and collate case studies, we can share different experiences and learning and make sure that, in all our approaches, Dirprwy Lywydd, we do not have a one-size-fits-all approach. 

The recommendations also include a call for more guidance on social value, particularly how this can be reflected in the price community groups pay for assets. I recognise that this is seen as a major barrier to making transfers affordable to community groups. We do, however, provide generous grants and loans to communities to enable communities to buy assets. We've already invested £46.4 million in grants to 369 projects since 2015 and we've committed £19 million more in the next three years; £5 million is also available from the community loan fund run for us by the Wales Council for Voluntary Action. Each gives community groups access to up to £300,000 to purchase assets. Our guidance review will reflect on social value, including the research undertaken by Compass Cymru in connection with public procurement.

Social value is inherent in our statutory commitment in the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015, and of course I accept the recommendation that this should be much more explicit in our guidance. This and other ongoing work around social value and sustainability will help us to act on this recommendation within the time frame the committee has set for us. Stakeholder engagement will be vital to producing guidance to meet the committee's expectations and I can confirm that officials have already started work on this. So, I can absolutely assure you this is not an attempt to kick it into the long grass—I'm very, very keen to make this happen. 

One of the most persistent barriers highlighted in the evidence presented to the committee was the lack of data available to the public. Our data-mapping platform, DataMapWales, is already available to registered users free of charge, but at the current time only shows publicly owned land. Officials are currently working with DataMapWales with a view to including the data held by HM Land Registry on privately owned land. This will increase the data to cover approximately 87 per cent of land. The land registry are also aiming to register all land by 2030, which will provide us with the data for full coverage on our mapping platforms.

The committee has recommended that a commission be established to consider a number of the 16 recommendations they have made, and I absolutely welcome this approach. This is a complex area in which there are many interests and perspectives and some difficult and persistent barriers that need to be considered in really great detail. The nature of the commission, its membership and terms of reference will be critical if the commission is to find workable solutions that empower community groups, and it is very important that stakeholders, including communities themselves, have a say in this. And as I say, work has already commenced.

So, a number of Members raised a point about the timing of this. So, just to say that we are already doing a lot of the work. The reason it's 'in principle' is that we're not doing it in quite the way that the committee set out, but we have already started it. A big issue for us will be how to get communities involved in setting up the terms of reference and the scope and size and membership of the commission. I'm very happy for Members to be involved in that or indeed for the committee to make further recommendations, John, if that's seen as appropriate. 

We'll want to ask the commission to look at how communities can be given more equal opportunities when competing against private investors, again, as a number of people, Mabon particularly, mentioned, and a number of others did. This includes consideration of whether legislation would be appropriate for Wales. So, it's very important that the commission considers the evidence of how effective the legislation has been in genuinely empowering committees where legislation has been introduced, and we are commissioning an independent review of the legislation in Scotland and England to assist the commission in its work. But, absolutely, it's not off the table. If that's what the commission recommends going forward, then we'd be very happy with that. We want to assist them to do that piece of work.

So, alongside the other pilots that have been undertaken through our communities policy board, this will provide evidence to enable the commission to consider whether similar provisions would benefit the communities in Wales. The committee has quite rightly challenged us to make asset transfers easier for our communities. It is important that we ensure those asset transfers are sustainable and enhance the resilience of our communities. And I very much thank the committee for their recommendations and I'm very happy to take this work forward alongside the committee and other Members with an interest. Diolch. 

I call on the Chair of the committee to reply to the debate—John Griffiths.

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd, and may I begin by thanking all those Members of the Senedd who took part in the debate today on our committee report and the spirit in which they did so? I think it's very clear, isn't it, that Members very much value the community assets that they have in their own areas and are able to point at many examples of good practice and indeed many Members referred to the need to spread those examples of good practice and to have a peer network and other means of doing so. But it's very heartening to hear those examples, and, as I say, I think all of us, not just those who took part in the debate today, but all Members of the Senedd, will have those good examples in their own areas.

I think also, Dirprwy Lywydd, it's a common view that we do need to reflect on the timeliness of action in taking forward the recommendations in the report and necessary progress in these matters. It was good to hear the Minister responding to that and stating her own commitment to ensure timeliness in taking forward the Government's response to the recommendations and the work that the Government has in hand in any event. Key to that, I think, is the commission and getting the commission up and running and all that the commission can then do to consider the best ways forward, including legislation, as the Minister mentioned. And again, good to hear the Minister commit to giving full and due consideration to legislation, depending on what the independent body comes forward with and the views of the commission itself, because that could be a very important way forward, and many Members mentioned the examples of Scotland and England.

I think it's clear, isn't it, as well, Dirprwy Lywydd, that Members reflect on the passion and the commitment in their own communities and within their own examples of local good practice, so there's much that we can draw on in taking forward this work, because we often hear that Wales is a community of communities, and I think there's a lot of strength in that in the history of our country and the current reality. People do want to see their own local quality of life in their own hands, to a meaningful extent. They want to be empowered. They want to take forward their own projects. They want to work with each other and other organisations. After all, it is our communities—you know, people, their families, their friends—who are in the front line, as it were. They are the ones who want and benefit from good local services, from community development, from that passion and commitment translating itself into action on the ground, and again we've heard many examples of how that is really benefiting our communities in Wales today.

And I do think that Members who mentioned the social justice issues—I think Mabon and Vikki Howells and others—make some very powerful points; evidence that where there is good transfer of community assets and communities are more in charge of their own affairs and their own circumstances, we see those benefits in terms of skill levels in the local community, health and well-being, economic development, general quality of life. That is very, very powerful indeed, isn't it, and I think we need to adequately reflect on that.

I think, Dirprwy Lywydd, that the current state of affairs, where we've had so many years of austerity going back so far now, and now the cost-of-living crisis, gives greater urgency to the need to take this work forward, because one response to that is to look at what does give good value for money and investment. And when you think of what communities bring to the table in terms of their own commitment, the time they're willing to give, the energy they're willing to give, a little seedcorn funding, as it were, goes an awful long way if you can harness that commitment and that passion, and this is an area where that really can be achieved and really can be made meaningful.

So, I think this is a set of recommendations and a report for its time, and if we can support our communities—. And again, I think Members in this debate made powerful points about the need not to transfer assets and responsibility for services just to reduce the financial responsibilities of local authorities and other public bodies, but to actually make for a sustainable future and a sustainable improvement in those services and the use of those facilities. If we can achieve that, we'll be doing some very powerful and very good work for our communities here in Wales.

And as I've said as Chair of this committee, Dirprwy Lywydd, reflecting the views of the committee members, in producing our reports in this Senedd we will be ever more mindful of the need to sustain our interest, to return to the recommendations, to continue to scrutinise Welsh Government to see if the responses are being realised on the ground, and that certainly applies to this report as much as any other. Diolch yn fawr.

Thank you, John. The proposal is to note the committee's report. Does any Member object? No. The motion is therefore agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.