Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 6:14 pm on 17 January 2023.
Diolch, Llywydd, and I'd like to thank the three Members for their contributions to this debate. I am grateful to Huw Irranca-Davies and the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee for their scrutiny, and I very much regret that the Senedd has not had longer to consider this Bill. I wrote to the Llywydd on 27 June last year, outlining that the UK Government chose not to work with devolved Governments when developing this Bill, and that really put us on the back foot right from the beginning in a way that I don't think any of us would want. It's a very complex Bill, and my officials have been working very hard to understand exactly what it will mean for Wales, and I think that's also the case with the other devolved administrations.
Sam Kurtz asked why we've laid this LCM. Well, from my viewpoint, I've done it to protect the devolution settlement. Sam Kurtz, as a Conservative, you might not care about that, but I passionately care about that. We’re having to do the work now that, really, we should have done last year, right at the beginning, and if we’d had that proper engagement from the UK Government on the detail of the Bill, I think we would have been allowed to undertake this work at a much earlier stage.
Huw Irranca-Davies referred to a variety of Standing Orders and asked why we laid it under the particular Standing Order that we did. A ‘relevant Bill’ is one that’s under consideration in the UK Parliament that makes relevant provision in relation to Wales, as set out in Standing Order 29. We believe that genetically modified organisms are firmly within the legislative competence of this Senedd, and the precision breeding Bill does not make any provisions directly in relation to Wales. We wanted to take a cautionary approach to genetic engineering, and I fully understand the difference between GM and GE, but we chose to take that approach.
I think what this debate really shows today is that, where the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020 negatively impacts on devolution we have to act to minimise its effects, and we will continue to challenge the negative impacts of the Act and champion the rights of this Senedd to legislate without interference in areas devolved to Wales.
Huw Irranca-Davies referred to the scrutiny session that you had with the Counsel General yesterday, and the effects of UKIMA on this Bill and the single-use plastics Bill. I know that the Counsel General will be writing to the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee on this issue, so I won’t muddy the water here now. I’m very happy to support, if Huw Irranca-Davies and his committee want to write to the Business Committee—and I’m sure that the Llywydd would agree—if you believe in a review of Standing Orders, I’m sure that that would be looked at by the Llywydd and the Business Committee.
I think Sam Kurtz, in his contribution, was really thinking that we'd dismissed this, and I haven’t dismissed it; I don’t dispute that the technology has great promise, and could have great promise, but what I don’t understand is that you can’t see that it’s our duty as lawmakers to carefully consider the evidence for change first and the potential ramifications, and that’s what we are proposing to do. I think we’ve got the time to carefully consider what we do here. So, let's take it. Why not take it? I’ve only had one meeting with the UK Government Minister, and I’ll come to that in a moment, but certainly, my understanding from him was that this will take a couple of years, for the first PB organisms to come on the market. We’ve got the time, so let’s take that time, let’s consider it, and let’s ask for views.
You also asked about labelling, and that was my main question, or one of my main questions, to Lord Benyon, the Minister in the UK Government, and the answer was that, if we labelled this in the way that the Welsh Government has suggested, consumers could believe that there was a safety risk, because it was labelled. Now, in the years I’ve been dealing with Welsh food and drink—and I would have thought Sam Kurtz would agree—consumers want to know where their food is coming from. They want to know what’s in it, because they want to make those informed decisions. So, why not have it if it’s nothing to worry about? If you’ve got nothing to hide, why not have that labelling? So, I think it was really disappointing that the Minister didn’t recognise that.
So, to conclude, we cannot support consent for this Bill. I think it drives a coach and horses through the devolution settlement, and, as I said at the outset, I ask Members to withhold consent for this Bill. Diolch.