Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:19 pm on 18 January 2023.
Can I thank everybody who has taken part in that very stimulating and very interesting debate? In fact, it was one of the best I've had the privilege of taking part in for a while here. Obviously, time means I can't repeat everything that everybody said, you'll be glad to hear, but I will pick out a few pertinent points.
The Minister came back to the roads review right at the end, which was one of the first things mentioned in this debate. Clearly, we're hoping that savings from any projects that don't go ahead will be utilised for sustainable travel, and it's something particularly the committee is keen to see, and that would help potentially address some of the issues around funding, albeit not enough in terms of the challenge that the Government does face.
References as well to rural services: we mustn't forget that modal shift in rural communities would look very different to modal shift in urban communities, and maybe that needs to be better reflected in more granular targets, for example, around some of these issues, but that's certainly something that we're all very aware of.
Yes, Wales is poorly served by the rail ecosystem, and Professor Mark Barry was making very, very valuable contributions to our work on the HS2 travesty. Coming back to money again, I think, is it the equivalent of £2 million a week for the next 20 years that we're contributing? So, clearly, there's a lot to be said about that.
Just to correct one thing about the cost of driving a car: I just checked the report as you were speaking. I think you said £250; it's near a 250 per cent increase. So, it's a 227 per cent increase by 2050. Without any further interventions, and investment in bus and coach, it's the 227 per cent increase by 2050 in order to drive the scale of modal shift needed in order to support net zero. But the carrot and stick was something that came through very clearly in much of the evidence that we received; you need to dangle the carrot, but you do need the stick as well in order to make that shift happen.
There were a number of references to the social injustices around access to services, and obviously reflecting different statistics around access to cars and dependency by particularly disabled people: 25 per cent depend on public transport. 'More needs to be done' was one call. Well, we've all said that, haven't we, in different ways? Even the Minister acknowledges that. Much is happening, I would say, as Chair. There's much being planned, there's much work in progress. I think the Minister himself said the challenge now is to operationalise—much of this is to actually start delivering.
Issues around the south Wales metro; when will that be completed? Well, spare a thought for the north Wales metro, which is on a very different trajectory as well, I would imagine, but is on the list of things to do, which is getting longer by the day.
Subsidised tickets, of course, is very important, but no good if there isn't a bus in the first place. So, that's clearly something that goes hand in hand. The recruitment of drivers is something that the committee touched on and a number of Members touched on, I think. And stories about buses not turning up; the point was made by a number of people in different ways. It undermines people's confidence in using buses. If you can't depend on it, then you're not going to use it in future. And particularly, encouraging students and young people to use buses; that's when you can establish a habit of a lifetime, and if you just find those people being pushed away in different ways, then obviously, that isn't going to happen, is it?
So, the Government did save the bus sector from bankruptcy during COVID, and we mustn't forget that. There are huge failures coming from the fact that it is a privatised service; the legal framework is mitigating against the kind of service that we want to see. These are—as the Minister said—fundamental problems that need to be addressed. But as we heard, there is common cause in the Chamber here today about addressing those challenges, and the committee, of course, stands ready to play our part as well in that process, to get us—in terms of bus and rail services in Wales—to where we need to be. Diolch.