3. What legal advice has the Counsel General provided to the Welsh Government regarding its ability to carry out a four-day week trial in Wales? OQ58997

I thank the Member. Whilst we have not committed to a pilot, we recognise the potential benefits of a shorter working week alongside other forms of flexible working. We are committed to working with social partners to encourage progressive working practices. 

I'm grateful to the Counsel General for his answer this afternoon. I'm sure he'll be aware of the report published just yesterday by the Senedd's Petitions Committee, which I Chair. This report was endorsed by the majority of the committee, and it did recommend a four-day-week trial within the public sector in Wales. The pilot will build on the evidence of the private sector trials that have demonstrated already an increase in productivity and the benefits to an employee. Counsel General, this is no doubt a bold proposal, but it is one that might be challenging. But, just because something in challenging, does not mean we should not do it. Across the world, four-day-week trials have demonstrated success in increasing that productivity and improving the mental and physical health of workers and helping them upskill too. Can I ask you, Counsel General, will you commit to looking further at this matter, discussing with your Cabinet colleagues within Welsh Government, and coming back to this Senedd with a fuller report on the powers that we have to take this bold step forward?

Can I thank the Member for raising this? I think it is really important that these ideas are raised within this Chamber and questions is an appropriate way to actually do that. It does remind me that the controversy suddenly when the suggestion was made that we could potentially move to a four-day working week—I think probably that controversy existed when we moved from a seven-day working week to a six-day working week, when we moved from six days to five days, et cetera. It was probably the same controversy when we talked about stopping children from having to work down the mines and so on.

What we're interested in is economic efficiency, economic productivity, but also the well-being of society, the well-being of the people who work in society, and how flexible working and different types of working can actually be more productive. I think that's why there have been so many pilots. I'm looking at the moment—. I know that, across Government, we are taking a close interest in the evidence around the shorter working week. We don't have legislative competence in employment legislation, but there are many areas where we can influence. We have, of course, the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015, and of course we have the Social Partnership and Public Procurement (Wales) Bill coming through as well, which seek to influence well-being and ethical employment and issues like that.

But, there have been trials. I'm looking at some of the research around this. Scotland is looking at this closely at the moment. That is, I think, something of interest. North America has had trials. Iceland has had trials. Spain is doing a pilot. Australia is looking at a pilot. So, this isn't just something that has come out of the blue. There are progressive and modern governments all over the world that are looking at ways of better working, better for the people who work, but equally better for the economies as well. The Spanish pilot was launched in 2022, and that's expected to run for two years. So, this is something where we have to keep an open mind. We have to want to seek to make change where change will improve people's working conditions, and we have to look at the evidence from the pilots that are produced. I know that this is something that Welsh Government will be very interested in.

The Deputy Presiding Officer (David Rees) took the Chair.

I'm pleased this question has been raised today, and I thank the Member for Alyn and Deeside for bringing it up, as it's a perfect example of utter hypocrisy in the Welsh Labour Party. In one breath, they support the union paymasters who are hell-bent on bringing this country to its knees, with strike after strike after strike, but then, in the other breath, they're asking people to work fewer days and bring productivity and wages down. My constituents who work in Flintshire and the Deeside area are facing rising mortgages, higher energy bills, soaring prices across the board, and they want to do some overtime, work that extra hour or two, just to keep the wolf from the door, and the local Members want them to work less and reduce their prospects. You couldn't make it up. So, when will we see a Labour Party and a Welsh Government that truly supports the working people of north-east Wales and supports people who want to get on in life, rather than holding them down?

Well, I'm sure, had the Member been around at the appropriate time, you would have been making exactly that speech when we went from seven days to a six-day working week, and I suppose you're still angry about the fact that we don't send children under 12 down the coal mines. Oh, I forgot—you actually closed most of the coal mines, so that probably dealt with that particular issue.

I note, as well, I'm sure you're probably still a supporter of the position that the Conservative Party took when it opposed the minimum wage and all the things that were said about the minimum wage at that particular time. So, listen, I hear what you say. I'm afraid you are still living in the Victorian age. We are now living in the twenty-first century and we want to look after the people who work for a living, and we want to have a good and efficient and productive economy.