Questions now from the party spokespeople. The Conservative spokesperson, Darren Millar. 

Diolch, Llywydd. Will the Minister provide an update on the Welsh Government's plans to bring forward a Senedd reform Bill?

Well, thank you for the question. The issue of a Senedd reform Bill is dependent on the policies being determined by this Senedd, so it's not a policy development that is being led by Government. There is considerable policy work that is going on at the moment with a view to the production of legislation. I will make statements in due course about that legislation. The objective, as you know, is to fulfil the recommendations of the special committee that was established. I hope to be able to make announcements in the not-too-distant future on the progress of that, and also once we have looked at the issues around the content of that legislation.

I'm grateful for that response, Minister. One of the key components, as you will know, of the proposals and plans for Senedd reform includes the mandatory zipping of candidates by gender on electoral ballot papers, in order to promote better gender equality here in the Senedd. But you'll be aware of the controversial decision by the UK Government to prevent the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill from becoming an Act and receiving Royal Assent, because of the reservations in equalities matters, which also apply here to the Senedd. In light of the developments north of the English border, can you tell us what assessment has been made of the Senedd's competence, as far as the Welsh Government is concerned, in relation to gender quotas and zipping? And can you confirm whether the Senedd, in your opinion, has competence in this area?

Thank you. The first thing is, we will be able to give a more definitive response once we've got to the stage of having draft legislation in front of us, to be able to look at that. And as you know, one of my obligations as Counsel General—and, again, the same with the Presiding Officer—is to actually look at the issue of competence. And again, that is a matter that also lies with the UK Government as well.

I'm aware of what the aspirations are in respect of the special committee and its particular recommendations. What we are doing is exploring all the different variations and options of ways of trying to fulfil that aspiration. What I would reiterate is perhaps the commitment that I've always given to the Senedd, that my role as a law officer, at the end of the day, with regard to competence, is to give a proper and fair and valid assessment of competence. And I will seek to ensure that the legislation that is brought before this Senedd is within the competence of this Senedd.

With regard to the point you make about section 35, I think that the issue of—. As long as we bring forward legislation that goes through proper parliamentary process, and is within competence, I do not think there is a role for UK Government in seeking to overturn legislation that has been properly determined in this place and within that competence. If there is a concern about competence that the UK Government has, then there is a way of dealing with that, and that is to refer it to the Supreme Court to determine.

Well, of course, the way that the UK Government has acted in respect of the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill is as is laid out in section 35 of the Act of Parliament. So, it's well within the normal rules, and the decision has not been taken lightly.

But can I just go back to this issue of improved diversity here in the Senedd? We all agree that we want a diverse Senedd that represents the population of Wales, so that we can ensure that decisions are made that are right and proper and that reflect the citizens that we represent. But it does seem clear, in the advice that I have seen, that the Senedd does not have competence to be able to implement these zipped lists. And given that, why is the Government even wasting time on this matter, given that it could jeopardise any of the Senedd reform plans that other parties might have and want to deliver?

Well, I think whatever legislation is brought before this place will only be out of competence if it goes beyond what is the statutory competence that we actually have. And if my confirmation is that I will ensure that the legislation that is brought before here will be within competence, then I don't think that the concerns that you have will arise. My intention is not to bring forward legislation that is out of competence; I will bring forward legislation that is there.

The issue of equality is a very complex area, and I think it is always a mistake to rely on individual pieces of advice that may be out of context, or that are not part of the whole picture, or that do not necessarily relate to the various options that might be considered. The Equality Act 2010 does make provision for exemptions to promote equality and diversity, and, of course, those are areas that we want to look at very, very carefully. It is a complex area of law; I can assure you it is being looked at very, very carefully, that the legal aspects will be properly analysed, and what we bring forward before this Senedd will be within competence.

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Peredur Owen Griffiths. 

Diolch, Llywydd. The UK Government's decision to veto the passage of the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill marks a new low in relations between Westminster and the devolved administrations. Over the past 13 years, this Tory Government has frequently demonstrated its thinly veiled disregard for devolution. Instead of working constructively with its devolved partners, it has resorted to damaging unilateral actions, such as the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020, that trample over devolved competencies.

Could the Counsel General provide his assessment of the UK Government's recent use of the section 35 power under the Scotland Act 1998 to block the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill, and, in particular, the implications of this measure for the devolution settlement in the UK? And will the Counsel General go as far as me in saying that the UK Government's outrageous denial of the democratic will of the Scottish Parliament further underlines the utter fallacy of the notion that the United Kingdom is a partnership of equals?

Thank you for the question. And, of course, this is an incredibly important issue that has arisen. Can I just say, firstly, on the gender recognition issue, of course the Gender Recognition Act 2004 is a reserved matter, so we are in a different position to that which the Scottish Government is in? The comment that's been made with regard to section 35 of the Scotland Act, I suppose, also ties into section 114 of the Government of Wales Act 2006, although the clauses are not exactly the same for Scotland and for Wales.

What I can say is that I have received, and am considering carefully, the seven-page document that sets out the UK Government's arguments in respect of its disagreement with the gender recognition Act that was passed in Scotland, and will consider now what the response of the Scottish Government is to that, whether there is a challenge, whether that raises significant constitutional issues that we would be concerned with. And, of course, as you know, I will have powers to intervene in any legal constitutional issues that might arise as a consequence of that.

It is probably premature to say anything further than that because there is so much detail. What I will do is express this particular comment that, firstly, after 20 years of Sewel actually working, we've had increasing numbers of the normalisation of the overriding of Sewel by the UK Government, which has been not only undermining the devolution settlement, but I believe it's beginning to undermine the inter-governmental machinery that has just recently been established. And this is a matter that is being raised, that I will be raising in appropriate meetings that I'll be having.

It is a matter of the most serious concern that if you have a Government within the United Kingdom that has legislation, that it goes through the correct processes, the correct parliamentary scrutiny, and is then passed, that it might be overturned on anything other than a significant constitutional issue that affects the whole of the United Kingdom. There are serious concerns as to whether that is the basis on which section 35 is potentially being triggered. But the issues around it are something I will consider very, very carefully, as well as the implications for the constitutional issues that might be relevant to Wales. 

Thank you for that response. 

Although the powers to legislate on gender recognition are not yet available to this Senedd, the First Minister has expressed a desire to introduce similar legislation to the GRR Bill here in Wales. He recently said in this Chamber,

'we will seek the powers. If we obtain those powers, we will put them to work here in Wales, and we will put proposals in front of this Welsh Parliament'.

However, it appears that these ambitions are increasingly at odds with the views of the UK Labour leadership. Earlier this month, Keir Starmer said that he had concerns about the proposed Bill, and stated his opposition to 16 and 17-year-olds having the ability to choose their gender. Furthermore, only 11 Labour MPs voted against the use of the section 35 powers in the Commons last week, the rest abstained. It's regrettable that UK Labour has apparently decided to follow the Tories' lead in indulging this cultural war on politics.

Can the Counsel General therefore confirm that it remains the Welsh Government's ambition to seek the necessary powers to legislate on a gender self-identification system along the same lines as those contained in the gender recognition reform Bill, including the reduction in the minimum age for applicants from 18 to 16? Diolch yn fawr.

What I can say is to reiterate what the First Minister said, which is that, yes, we do wish to have those powers. It is an area that we wish to legislate in. What the precise content of that legislation might be, I'm sure the detail of that would still need to be considered. Equally so, we'd need to go through the floor of this Senedd. Can I also say, just in terms of the points you made about other Governments, of course there are concerns, just as there were concerns in Scotland? What was interesting about the legislation in Scotland was that it had cross-party support and it had cross-party opposition. There were those within the SNP who opposed it. There were those within the Scottish Labour Party that supported and opposed as well. I think it's in the nature of that particular legislation. But, the First Minister has been completely clear about the direction that we do want to go in. The detail of that is something I'm sure would be considered if and when we actually get legislative competence in that area.