In the opening remarks of that conference, the word 'crisis' was indeed used, and I'm sure your Labour colleagues in Scotland and England will note that you disagree with their assessment of the state of the NHS.

But you did say that we need a serious debate, and it is a serious debate. We heard serious contributions from Jane Dodds, from John Griffiths, from Members on my benches, Russell George. It's very, very important. I'll have to comment on Jenny Rathbone's not-so-serious comments—I think insulting comments. Not insulting to me—that's politics, that's fine—but insulting to those bodies that contributed towards these ideas, an attack on a plan she clearly knew nothing about and is less interested in learning about.

I looked at my social media during the debate, at some of the comments that have been made. The British Medical Association grateful to see some of their key calls on pay, workforce and social care reflected in the five-point plan. The Royal College of Midwives:

'Great to see the need for fair pay for NHS staff at the top of @Plaid_Cymru's 5-Point Plan.... Good too to see the plan prioritise the...retention of NHS staff'.

The Royal College of Surgeons:

'We are pleased to contribute to this work on #surgical hubs.'

I visited Clatterbridge with the Royal College of Surgeons on Monday. They were pleased, they were at our launch of our manifesto because they have contributed towards it. And of course the Minister says that she speaks to them as well, but maybe they can speak more candidly with us in wanting to make sure that it's emphasised that steps Government are saying—. I'm not saying Government's doing nothing; I'm just saying Government isn't doing what needs to be done, and isn't pushing the agenda as quickly as it can. For example, in response to the Minister's comments on the preventative, she said that this is sensitive, this is difficult. You know what, on the preventative, hit it hard—hit it hard: put it front and centre of everything the Government says. Every time you talk about health, talk about the preventative, doing today what makes us healthier tomorrow— the figurative tomorrow of 10 years from now, of course, but the actual tomorrow; you're getting ready today for that operation you've got next week. All that preventative agenda really needs to be prioritised.

So, on to the Minister's comments. I'll give her the benefit of the doubt when she said, 'Thanks for giving me another opportunity to explain what the Government is doing.' It could have been read as sarcasm; I will just see it as a tongue-in-cheek comment from a Minister who has to answer questions day in and day out. And you know what? We make no apologies for asking those questions. We make no apologies for working with partners across health and care in putting together a five-point plan that some Members might want to ridicule, but they're ridiculing the plan put forward by the workers themselves. 'Nothing to see here' isn't good enough from Government. I feared that it would be, 'We're doing this already.'