Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:52 pm on 31 January 2023.
We have to move away from piecemeal devolution, with Plaid Cymru believing we can salami-slice to independence, the Conservatives that we can stop it going any further, and many looking to move devolution backwards. An example is policing: devolved to Scotland, Northern Ireland, Manchester and London, but not to Wales. We have directly elected mayors in England; in fact, Bristol has a directly elected mayor, and so does the West of England, including Bristol. Whilst where power and responsibility lie in the USA and Germany is clear—it being the same in each state or Länder—in Britain, it's complicated. I was going to use the word 'chaotic', and I think I probably prefer that word. Asymmetric devolution does not work; just look at what's happened in Spain, the only other country that's gone ahead with asymmetric devolution—it's got exactly the same problems as we have. Does the Minister agree there is a need to create a coherent model for the whole of the UK, as has been created in the USA and Germany, and that we need to do it urgently? We just cannot carry on like this.