4. Debate: The Draft Budget 2023-24

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:00 pm on 7 February 2023.

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Photo of Huw Irranca-Davies Huw Irranca-Davies Labour 5:00, 7 February 2023

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd, and I'm speaking in my capacity as Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, although, if I have time at the end, I have just one other point to add, taking that hat off.

Our committee laid our report on the draft budget yesterday afternoon, and I thank committee members and our clerk team for their rapid and diligent scrutiny. Our scrutiny of the Welsh Government's draft budget proposals focused mainly on spending on justice. However, we also closely considered whether the Welsh Government has the capacity to legislate within the current constitutional context, and we're very grateful to the Counsel General for attending our meeting on 16 January to consider these areas in detail.

In relative terms, compared with the Welsh Government's other responsibilities, spending on justice within the draft budget is relatively limited, and it reflects the Welsh Government's relatively limited powers. However, its impact is wide ranging and so we keep a close eye on the Government's proposed spending in this area. We noted small decreases to the allocations within the draft budget that support the Welsh Government's justice transformation programme, and also to the Welsh tribunals. We were grateful to receive assurances from the Counsel General that these decreases did not signal that these areas were falling in priority. In particular, in the case of the Welsh tribunals, we heard that the Welsh Government would be monitoring the impact of any increases in cases or face-to-face hearings on the resources that the tribunals require, and so we recommended that the Counsel General should provide us with timely updates on its monitoring of that. We also heard about the important work that's under way to reform the Welsh tribunals, following recommendations made by the Law Commission. We would like to see more detail about the extent of this work, and so we recommended that the Counsel General should provide us with detail on the likely resources that will be needed to develop these proposals.

It is very important for us, as well as the Senedd, to be able to measure the outcomes of the Welsh Government's spending. We heard, during our session with the Counsel General, that the Welsh Government's first annual report on its delivering justice in Wales programme should contain detail on the Welsh Government's expenditure on justice and evaluations of the outcomes of that expenditure. As the content of the annual report will likely touch on both our remit and that of the Equality and Social Justice Committee, we will explore opportunities for joint scrutiny of the annual report.

Now, Members will be aware of the concerns we have as a committee on the increase in the number of UK parliamentary Bills subject to legislative consent memoranda. The Counsel General told us in quite clear terms that the Welsh Government has indeed sufficient resources to deliver its legislative programme. However, in the context of this increasing volume of LCMs, it's unclear to us as a committee if the Welsh Government does have sufficient resources to deliver all the legislation that it may decide at any time to be necessary. As a result, we are concerned that the Welsh Government may indeed be using the UK Government's legislative programme to implement some of its policy objectives because it may require less of its own resources to be deployed, which has the added effect of legislation in devolved areas being subject to less-detailed scrutiny by the Senedd. Now, I note that the Local Government and Housing Committee has also raised concerns after hearing evidence that the biggest challenge in delivering the Welsh Government's legislative programme is, in quotes, the 'skilled resource that is needed'.

We're also particularly concerned about the Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill. The impact of this Bill on the Welsh Government's resources if it is enacted as currently drafted is likely to be considerable. The Counsel General told us that the Welsh Government is continuing to identify which areas will need attention under the Bill's requirements. We do believe that it is imperative that the full picture of that assessment is shared with us and with the Senedd. If the retained EU law Bill becomes law, the Welsh Government should do exactly that. We've recommended in our report that the Counsel General should report within a month of the Bill’s passage, and monthly thereafter.

Finally, we considered the Welsh Government’s future spending on its programme to improve the accessibility of Welsh law. We were told that the costs to deliver this programme are met from across a number of portfolios, and that indicative additional staffing costs of that work were set out in the explanatory memorandum to the Legislation (Wales) Bill. Since it is now over three years since the Bill became an Act, we have asked the Counsel General for an analysis of whether those costs are proving to be accurate.

In the final 20 seconds I have, if I can take my hat off, I began with justice, and I want to end with social justice and echo the words that have come from a few colleagues, our concern about the support for bus transport in Wales. This is a matter of social justice. I am worried that the squeeze on this budget—and there is an undoubted squeeze on this budget—is going to mean that, when Liz Truss blew up the economy, she may have blown up parts of our policy agenda, including radical reforms on the buses—[Interruption.] No, I'm not speaking as Chair. I made that clear, quite clear, quite crystal clear. As a backbencher.