I fully agree with the reform of council tax, but, on a band B property, the proposed rise in Caerphilly—the lowest council tax in the whole of Gwent, if not the whole of Wales—is £1.91 a week. The proposal that he's putting forward for basic rate of income tax from the same workers is around £2.50 a week. So, actually, the consequences of his tax rise will be higher for those people who Lindsay Whittle says are faced with

'higher food, energy and mortgage costs and many are now having to turn to foodbanks'. 

[Interruption.] As he said to me, I'm not taking another intervention. [Laughter.] If he'd taken an intervention from me a second time, he could have come in, we could had a lovely debate, but let's play by the rules that he set.

Plaid Cymru are making it very clear in Caerphilly that they are not accepting any council tax rise at all. In fact, what they've said—. You might want to speak to speak to your Plaid Cymru group. We know that they're mad as a box of frogs in Caerphilly. But they've said:

'We propose a zero council tax increase' in Caerphilly, and that a council tax rise

'cannot be justified and bills should be frozen for residents.'

[Interruption.] Two seconds. I think what they are doing there is playing politics, and I think what is happening with Plaid Cymru here in the Senedd—[Interruption.] Heledd, I will come to you in a second. What they are doing here in the Senedd is proposing this council tax rise so that they can make as many uncosted proposals for the current budget as they want to, outside of the co-operation agreement, and then say, 'Yes, but we wanted to raise council tax to pay for it, so you should raise council tax.' This is where the co-operation agreement is falling down. It's power without responsibility. I think it should either be a coalition Government or it should be confidence and supply. What we've got from this deal is Plaid Cymru having the worst of both worlds and being able to make these points. Heledd, you can defend it if you want.