Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 6:16 pm on 7 February 2023.
I note what you say and defining sustainable land management by reference to the objectives and the duty does provide certainty I think in shaping possible action to the specific context of land management within Wales.
Huw also mentioned around it being a broad, framework Bill, and, again, we can point to the affirmative procedure for the scrutiny of the Senedd when regulations are made in order to allay any fears about the breadth of the framework.
Peredur talked about funding, of course, and it's really difficult when you don't know what your funding is going to be, and the focus of the future support cost-benefit analysis within the RIA was on the costs and benefits of providing revenue support directly to farmers. And as you said, under the current system, the two largest contributors are the basic payment scheme and Glastir, and that amounts to the £278 million that you referred to per year. I do accept the recommendation to add further information relating to the RDP elements not included in the RIA for information, following Stage 2.
Around NRW, the costs that we've attributed to NRW are indicative estimates and not predictions. Officials are currently working with NRW to determine what, if any, future downstream costs may be realised as a result of the SLM schemes. And as we begin to transition, I will work to ensure that any downstream costs resulting from the implementation of this legislation are fully considered.
Samuel Kurtz, I was very pleased to hear you talking about and recognising the complementary objectives of supporting our farmers to produce food sustainably. And of course, they are absolutely in a position—they have so many opportunities—to help address the climate and nature emergencies. And like other Members—Jane Dodds, and obviously, Mabon ap Gwynfor and Cefin Campbell and yourself and obviously my own group—I look forward to challenge at Stage 2 and to continuing to work with you all to make this the very best piece of legislation.
Mabon ap Gwynfor queried about the 10 per cent on trees and what that means. That's being looked at as part of the co-design for the sustainable farming scheme. It will be going out to consultation again, and what we're trying to do is have that conversation with farmers and try to explore how they can plant trees so that they become an asset to food production—so, for instance, shelter belts or biosecurity barriers. I'm not quite sure the start was tempestuous; I'm not sure that was 'Brexit and our land' really or that it was a misstep. It was absolutely the first consultation and, yes, things have changed, but what's the point in having consultation if you don't listen and you don't make changes? And I do think that everybody has absolutely contributed along that very long journey that you pointed out.
I think it was you who asked about the hierarchy. Yes, it was. There is no hierarchy—it's always been the intention that the SLM objectives would be considered together. They're not expected—. There's no hierarchy because what they are expected to be is complementary, and we don't intend to alter section 2. I think the wording 'best achieves' is already present in the SLM duty in that context, and there's a strenuous duty on Welsh Ministers to maximise their contribution.
Jenny Rathbone talked about food security, and the biggest challenge to our food security is the climate emergency, so by investing in our soils and our habitats and our livestock—and of course in our farmers' skills—for me, that's an investment in protecting food production.
And Joyce Watson referred to AMR—I'm actually making an oral statement on AMR and the use of that, and I think that is a really important point.
So, I am committed to writing to committees, Llywydd, with a response on each of the recommendations and the issues raised by various Members today pertaining to the committee reports, so I do ask that Members approve the motion and agree the general principles and financial resolution of the Agriculture (Wales) Bill. Diolch.