4. What recent discussions has the Minister had with the UK Government regarding building safety? OQ59080

Thank you, Rhys. I have regular contact with the UK Government and other devolved administrations in respect of building safety. I engage with my counterparts in the UK Government and devolved nations through the inter-ministerial group meetings, in which I discuss matters including building safety.

Diolch yn fawr, Weinidog. I was disappointed in hearing your answer to my colleague Janet Finch-Saunders that you're yet to receive a response to your request to meet Michael Gove. I hope he will respond to you very soon. Minister, I read your article in Welsh Housing Quarterly, and in that you set out further action on building safety. I was pleased to see that some remediation work has happened with at least two developers. When do you expect the other developers—11 in total—will commence the remediation work, and how many developers are yet to engage or have refused to sign up to the pact? Diolch yn fawr.

Thank you very much, Rhys. I met Lucy Frazer. Unfortunately, she changed jobs pretty immediately afterwards. I'm not going to take that personally. I'll have to look to meet the new housing Minister as soon as I know who that is. I do meet Michael Gove regularly at the higher level inter-ministerial group meetings, in which we discuss these matters as well, but I haven't had the opportunity to do that in the last month or so. We have 11 developers signed up to the pact, so we're really pleased that they've done that. We're in the process of agreeing the legal documentation that goes alongside that, and we've been working with them to make sure that they can commence in advance of that. Two of them, Persimmon and Bellway, have commenced work in developments in advance of the legal documentation. We're working with others to see if we can accelerate that. I would encourage them right now to start those works as soon as possible, but nevertheless we'd like them to sign up to the legal documentation.

Without giving too much up in the way of commercial confidentiality, the range of things we're discussing are, for example, whether the Government can help with cash flow problems by paying upfront and being repaid, whether the work can be shared in some way, and also what the supply chain and employment chains look like. Because with the best will in the world, we'll all be fighting over the same resource if we're not careful. So, we do need to make sure that it's calibrated. We also want to take into account the outcome of our surveys, including the intrusive surveys, so that we're looking at a 'worst fabric first' approach here in Wales. But as I said in response to Janet Finch-Saunders, I will also take a very dim view of any developers who don't sign up and get started as soon as they can.

I'd like to thank my colleague Rhys for raising this issue. Minister, I understand that PRP, the company instructed by the Welsh Government to complete site surveys of the 163 buildings in Wales registered as affected by cladding issues, will not release any reports until all of the surveys are completed. The timescale for completion was indicated as sometime in October, and we are now four months over that original completion date. As the Minister will no doubt agree, this issue is extremely important for many people who own flats, because they are unable to sell or remortgage properties until these site surveys have been completed and any potential work highlighted is undertaken. Therefore, Minister, can you provide a provisional date by which you expect PRP will have completed all site surveys and make available their reports? Thank you.

Thank you, Joel. As I said, we are very aware of what the position on each site is. We understand what the difficulties have been. The remaining sites, the ones that are not yet completed, all have either a complex management structure and it's taken us some time to get all of the consents in place for the intrusive surveys—I believe we've got all but two of those sorted now—and the others require the closure of a main thoroughfare or there is some other utility issue associated with actually commencing the work. So, it's not that we need to put an end date on it; we understand what the issue for each of the buildings is and we're working with them to make sure that we can overcome that, including speaking to local authorities and engaging in that way.

I'm very aware that this is taking longer than we'd thought. Unfortunately, it's even more complicated than I thought, and I get absolutely trolled on social media every time I say that, but it doesn't take away from the fact that it is complex. We will be bringing forward a building reform Bill, which makes it a lot less complex and makes people step up to their responsibilities. I hope that the Senedd will help us pass that when it comes forward. We are learning a lot from the complexity that we're encountering in doing this in terms of helping us craft the Bill and make sure that the system that we put in place for the future makes sure that this does not happen again.

Good afternoon, Minister. I firstly want to say I am sorry that you've had the experience of being trolled on social media; that's absolutely unacceptable, and I'm sorry to hear that. I just really wanted to ask two very short questions, one from your response to Janet Finch-Saunders. It was good to hear about the buy-out scheme. You said it was actually not being taken up, so, my first question is: I wonder what the communication process is, how you're advertising that. And the second is something, again, that you touched on: is there a pact or an agreement in place to engage with developers who are pursuing leaseholders in court? We all know that that's extremely stressful for people who have taken steps perhaps early in the process in order to try to seek remediation. Thank you. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

On the leaseholder support scheme, I said when we launched it in June last year that we'd continue to review it on a three-monthly basis, and we've continued to do that. We've reviewed and slackened the eligibility criteria each time in order to reach a wider range of people. Now, we've included the rising cost of energy in the hardship factors that are taken into account, and we've allowed displaced residents to be eligible. So, basically, if you're a pensioner couple and you've bought the flat as your pension income, then we're allowing you to take advantage of the scheme now, which wasn't the case when we started.

We've communicated it through the managing agents and through all of the various routes that we are aware of, including the leaseholder groups that we do engage with. Some of the leaseholder groups have refused to engage with us, unfortunately, but we still try to communicate with as wide a range of them as possible. And, Llywydd, anyone who has anybody in this situation in their constituency or region should definitely get in touch as soon as possible because we're anxious to help as many people as possible. But more importantly, we want to help all leaseholders.

I've taken the view that individual leaseholders should not have to sue individual developers for this, but that the Government should take responsibility for that, and that's the basis of the scheme we've taken forward. Unfortunately, where there is ongoing litigation, we cannot intervene in that. That's the problem. So, if there is ongoing litigation, my hands are completely tied. I wish that wasn't the case, but it is. We've already offered to pay for surveys that have been undertaken in the correct way retrospectively, and there are a number of other things that we can do. But where there is litigation ongoing, I'm afraid my hands are tied. 

I think you've seen just how much of a problem this is for very many of us representing constituencies. As the Minister is aware, I have two high-rise developments in Swansea East, Altamar and South Quay. In fact, the Minister might drive past them on her way in some mornings. There is serious concern being expressed to me by the residents in those blocks. In Altamar, they're concerned that Bellway are refusing to meet with them. They believe that implementing sections 116 to 125 of the Building Safety Act 2022 would get action taken. Why will the Welsh Government not put forward a legislative consent motion and allow the legislation to be used in Wales?

Thank you, Mike. I just don’t agree that it would allow action to be taken. We’re actually very well aware of those buildings. Both of them are in the intrusive survey stage; one of them is complete. One of the buildings has not asked us to pay for a survey that they’d already had done. I’m more than happy to discuss the detail with you if you want to meet with me about it. We'd like them to bring that forward. I hope that both buildings will go into remediation soon. If there is a problem with one of the developers not engaging, if you want to write to me, I’m very happy to intervene.