Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople

Part of 1. Questions to the Minister for Climate Change – in the Senedd at 1:49 pm on 8 February 2023.

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Photo of Lee Waters Lee Waters Labour 1:49, 8 February 2023

Thank you very much for that important set of questions. In fact, the data published by the Burns commission for north Wales showed that, even in rural areas, the majority of journeys were relatively short and, in principle, many of them could be replaced by public transport and active travel if the services were there. I have been conducting a series of round-tables with local authorities and others across different parts of Wales, and what's striking is that when you map rural areas, there are rural areas in every county of Wales. It's not just a mid Wales issue, or a north-west Wales issue; rurality is everywhere, and the issue of accessibility and choice is a real challenge across the country.

We know from other countries that where different choices are made, you can have a viable public transport system in deep rural areas. If you look at Sweden, Germany or Switzerland, even the small villages have a bus service every hour. So, there's no reason in principle why we couldn't make a much better offer for rural areas. It's a question of resource and political choice. Now, if we are going to meet the climate change targets that we're all committed to, we clearly need to see modal shift, people moving from cars to sustainable transport in all parts of Wales. One of our foci is to say, 'How do we make what we know is the right thing to do the easiest thing to do?', because human nature is to do the easiest thing, and, at the moment, in many parts of Wales it simply isn't easy, or in many communities it's not possible at all after 5 or 6 o'clock at night to catch a bus. So, we know we're not starting from a great place, and we know that this is going to take some time to happen.

As part of the co-operation agreement, we are looking at transport corridors in west Wales. The designated Member Siân Gwenllian and I have agreed a programme of work with Transport for Wales to assess the possibilities for primarily bus corridors in west Wales, but also looking at how, in planning terms, we can preserve the old railway line between Aberystwyth and Carmarthen. But, at some point it's going to become a choice of where we put the scarce investment we have and where the priority is. That, I think, is our dilemma, because from a carbon point of view we're always going to want to achieve the quickest reductions and the largest reductions in carbon. Clearly, investments in rural areas will be more expensive and have a smaller carbon impact, and there's going to be that tension that we need to resolve. But I'm very clear that unless we address the rural issue, we're not going to be able to succeed in our overall vision.