Questions Without Notice from the Party Leaders

1. Questions to the First Minister – in the Senedd at 1:39 pm on 14 February 2023.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:39, 14 February 2023

(Translated)

Questions now from party leaders. The leader of the Welsh Conservatives, Andrew R.T. Davies.

Photo of Andrew RT Davies Andrew RT Davies Conservative

Thank you, Presiding Officer. Leader of the house, one of the centrepieces of the legislative programme that was in the manifesto of your party was a clean air Act. This has been talked about for many years prior to the last election. We're still uncertain as to when this clean air Act might be arriving within the Welsh Parliament. Are you able to update us as to when we might have a Bill coming to the floor of the Plenary here so that we can make progress in this critical area?

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour

Yes, it's during this year.

Photo of Andrew RT Davies Andrew RT Davies Conservative

That's really helpful to understand, especially with 2,000 premature deaths and £1 billion of expenditure with the Welsh NHS. That's the cost of dirty air on people's lungs and associated health conditions. Very often, when we talk about legislation, we are told that the Welsh Government lack bandwidth. Last week, in a statement, the Welsh Government made it known that they want to apply for the gender recognition powers so they can bring a piece of legislation in that particular area. Why on earth are not all the efforts of the Welsh Government being put into bringing this piece of legislation—the clean air Act—which, hopefully, will come this year? We have had it promised before and it hasn't arrived. Why seek more powers when the current powers that you have are not being utilised to improve people's lives here in Wales? 

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 1:40, 14 February 2023

As I said in my first answer to you, it will be this year, I know, because now I have responsibility for noise pollution. Soundscape is obviously part of the clean air Bill, and I know the Minister for Climate Change and I have a meeting tomorrow with our officials, so it is progressing in the way that you want it to, and we want it to as well. On other legislation, obviously, there is a legislative programme that the First Minister sets out every year. As far as I'm aware, at the moment, that piece of legislation to which you referred is not in the legislation programme. 

Photo of Andrew RT Davies Andrew RT Davies Conservative 1:41, 14 February 2023

Will the clean air Act, as you've been discussing with your ministerial colleague in the Welsh Government, be all-encapsulating, because we've been led to believe that obviously it will cover every aspect of life so that we can see a real improvement in the air quality here in Wales? As I said, 2,000 people approximately die prematurely because of dirty air here in Wales, and at many millions if not billions of pounds of cost to the Welsh NHS. Will it be a piece of legislation that will capture business, civic society and the whole gambit of Welsh life? Or are you looking at a more nuanced piece of legislation that will be more specific to areas of life here in Wales? 

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour

No, it's very wide-ranging. As I say, the Minister and I are meeting tomorrow to discuss specific aspects of it, and obviously we will update the Chamber. But I think you raise a very important point. We know far too many people suffer poor health because of our poor air quality. You'll be aware of the 50 mph projects that we've had, that absolutely show that if you reduce your speed to 50 mph in certain areas in Wales—I think there were five pilots across Wales—it has a positive impact. So, it is a piece of legislation we're very much looking forward to bringing to the Chamber. 

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:42, 14 February 2023

(Translated)

The leader of Plaid Cymru, Adam Price. 

Photo of Adam Price Adam Price Plaid Cymru

Diolch, Llywydd. Today, the Government, with the publication of the roads review, will be heralding its commitment to a historic shift in policy and priority from roads to public transport. So, why is it that you announced late on Friday that you were merely delaying a catastrophic cut in support for bus services from the end of March to the end of June, that will literally decimate what is for most people in most parts of Wales the only form of public transport they have? 

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 1:43, 14 February 2023

Well, I thought most people would welcome three months additional funding for our bus services. I think there has to be a much wider conversation, and I think the Deputy Minister for Climate Change has referred to this. We haven't seen the return to bus use that we did pre the pandemic. I can't remember if the figure was 70 per cent or 75 per cent, as to what has returned. So, 25 per cent or 20 per cent—sorry, 30 per cent—has not come back. That patronage has not come back to our bus services. So, those conversations obviously will be ongoing. I appreciate a lot of people need a bus service and they need a reliable bus service, and certainly, if we're going to get people off our roads, we absolutely accept that our public transport has to be good and it has to be accessible. But I go back to what I've been saying probably now in three answers: a lot of it is about funding. You can't spend funding that you haven't got, but I would imagine that most people would welcome that three-month extension of funding. 

Photo of Adam Price Adam Price Plaid Cymru 1:44, 14 February 2023

Industry body, Coach and Bus Association Cymru, has said the risk to services and jobs without continuity of funding has only been delayed. They are predicting cuts in bus services ranging from two thirds to mass deregistration of all routes. That would mean people across Wales suddenly unable to go to work, to shop, to go to hospital, to go to college and school. As the chief executive of Neath Port Talbot Council, Karen Jones, has said, it is perverse that Welsh Government are striving to deliver sustainable travel, with the public encouraged to rely less on private transport, yet funding decisions, such as proposed here, will force more people to travel by car, compromising the policy objective. Can you explain the logic in your proposal? 

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour

The Minister has had a series of meetings with the organisation you refer to. As the leader of Plaid Cymru knows, we have saved the bus industry with that emergency funding during the pandemic. As I said, bus use has changed. There is, I think, a broad agreement—and I think that organisation in its meetings with the Minister would accept that—that we really need to have a fresh look at our bus network. We are in a very difficult position with our budget, as you know. We haven't been able to confirm the bus industry funding package for the next financial year as yet. It is a very difficult time for everyone, I absolutely accept that, but we do continue to work closely with the industry, with the local authorities, and we will provide further updates as we go through this month.

Photo of Adam Price Adam Price Plaid Cymru 1:45, 14 February 2023

Three quarters of all public transport journeys in Wales are made by bus, but buses get a fraction of the investment currently earmarked by the Government for rail. Cutting that funding further at a time of falling passenger numbers and rising costs will decimate the bus network; it will disproportionately disadvantage women, children and young people, the elderly, the disabled, workers on low incomes and rural and Valleys communities. Cutting subsidy to bus transport in the middle of a cost-of-living crisis is among the most regressive acts you have ever proposed. Will you meet as a Government with a delegation of my Plaid Cymru colleagues—even the Llywydd may want to wear her constituency hat on this one—to reverse your decision and extend the bus emergency scheme for 12 months so that we can protect the existing bus network while we design and build the better, fairer, greener transport network that even the Deputy Minister says you want to see?

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 1:46, 14 February 2023

As the Member knows, the bus service, unfortunately, was privatised. We're looking at unprivatising, if that's the correct word. We've got the bus Bill, which will be probably the most far-reaching plan across the UK, and I think it really will be a vital step to reversing the damage of deregulation. We do have to make sure that people have a bus service they can rely on that is easy to use and puts people before profit, but, of course, legislation doesn't happen overnight. We're taking steps at the moment to try and address the issues that have been caused by the pandemic. The extra three months of emergency funding has been very welcomed; it gives the Deputy Minister some breathing space. But I go back: the budget is the budget. It's very easy for Members of the opposition to spend non-existent funding. As a Government, we've had to look very carefully. As part of the co-operation agreement, you know just how difficult our budget is. 

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:47, 14 February 2023

Question 3 [OQ59147] has been withdrawn, although Laura Jones is here and it could have been asked. I'm sure she'll want to explain that to me outside the Chamber. Question 4, Heledd Fychan.