2. What discussions has the Minister had with the Minister for Climate Change and the Minister for Social Justice regarding Welsh Government support to ease the financial pressures on scheduled bus services? OQ59129

I regularly engage with my Cabinet colleagues on funding issues. In this financial year, we have made available over £110 million of funding to protect and grow bus services right across Wales. The bus emergency scheme has also been extended into the next financial year. 

It's undoubtedly the case, Minister, that cross-Government working, finding the money to put in place the emergency bus support and also extending it now for the next few months has been critical to ensuring the survival of the bus industry in Wales, including independent operators, small family operators and so on that run their businesses. But we know the pressures that your budget is under, but we also do know that this is genuinely a climate justice issue, and it's also a social justice issue, as we keep being told, quite rightly. And we can repeat this endlessly until it gets into people's minds that 80 per cent of those people who use buses have no other alternative. So, can I simply urge—this is not asking for magic money—but can I genuinely urge her, in her discussions with the Minister for Climate Change, and the Minister for Social Justice and Cabinet colleagues, to do all she possibly can to try and find that way that we can keep these bus services going in all our communities—rural and urban Wales. It's vital, going forward, particularly after the announcement yesterday about turning a corner a different way to deal with shifting people to more sustainable travel. 

I'm grateful for the question and completely agree with the points that are made about bus services being a critical part of our approach to delivering social justice here in Wales, and, of course, an important part of our environmental aspirations as well. I think that our support for the bus industry through the pandemic and now at the other side of the pandemic has been absolutely crucial in terms of maintaining the services that we do have in Wales. But it was a bus emergency scheme, and I think that this level of subsidy is just not sustainable in the long term, which is really why we are looking at reviewing the bus services support grant, to move the industry away from that kind of reliance on the emergency funding to something that is much more stable in the future. And colleagues will be aware of our ambitious plans, in terms of the bus Bill that we aim to bring forward, to bring more control back to local authorities in terms of the services that are provided. So, I think that, really, is the longer term answer, but, in the meantime, our support is really important for the industry. 

Minister, I have raised on a number of occasions the plight of residents across my region who have suffered as the result of cuts to scheduled bus services. The most recent issue brought to my attention is a proposal by First Cymru to cut services to Resolven in my region. Many people in Resolven, particularly the elderly, are dependent upon the X7 service, as their nearest post office or bank is over seven miles away. Any reduction in service will have a bad impact on a community like Resolven. I have also been contacted by Neath Port Talbot Council, who are concerned that the Welsh Government’s decision to axe bus emergency scheme 3 funding is leading to the acceleration in cuts to these bus services. If BES3 funding goes, companies operating services within Port Talbot and Neath will deregister most routes within the county borough. Minister, will you reconsider the decision to end BES3 funding and look at other ways to support a struggling bus industry that is so vital to many of our constituents?

I would refer the Member to the joint statement on the bus emergency scheme that was issued by the Welsh Government, the Welsh Local Government Association, the Confederation of Passenger Transport and the Coach and Bus Association Cymru last week, which set out that there is now an initial extension of three months, which gives the industry some short-term stability, which it needs while we continue to work with the industry together on planning bus networks that better suit the new travel patterns that we've seen since the end of the pandemic.

Then, I refer back to the point that I made in terms of the bus Bill being the most far-reaching plan across the UK and an absolutely vital step in terms of reversing the damage that we've seen in terms of the deregulation of the bus industry. We want to make sure that people have a service that they can rely on, which is easy to use and which puts people before profit, and that absolutely will be at the heart of our work, going forward. But, of course, legislation doesn't happen overnight, so, in the meantime, we are working, as I say, with the industry to explore what quick improvements can be made to bus passengers' experiences of our buses, and, of course, we have published the Bws Cymru bus plan, which sets out some of these immediate steps.

Minister, the disappointing announcement late on Friday night that the emergency funding scheme for operators is only to be extended for three months has not brought the certainty that the industry needs. Alongside rising costs—fuel, maintenance and wages, et cetera—fare-paying patronage levels across Wales have only returned to about 65 per cent of what they were before COVID. I've heard from companies in west Wales who provide these vital scheduled bus services that are concerned that they may no longer be able to operate these vital services, which allow people to attend hospital or GP appointments, to go shopping and interact with the wider world, or even travel to school. A lack of public transport, in rural areas in particular, is damaging to social cohesion and the ability to access public services, so the importance of these services in rural communities in particular cannot be understated. So, what discussions have you had, Minister, with the Deputy Minister for Climate Change regarding the end of the BES and what assessment have you undertaken regarding the impact that ceasing this will have on local authorities and bus companies?

I had a meeting just last week with the Deputy Minister for Climate Change and the Minister for Climate Change to discuss this issue and other issues in relation to pressures within the overall transport system. I was pleased that there were some conversations with the traffic commissioner to give the result that the deregistration window has now been temporarily reduced to 28 days. I think the extension to the funding, albeit short term, alongside that 28-day window, now means that there's no need for operators to be making immediate decisions on their future network. However, we will work together closely with the bus industry and other partners, including Transport for Wales, to bring around the strong and sustainable bus network for Wales that we need. But, as you appreciate from the question, I think, it is the Deputy Minister for Climate Change who's leading on those discussions, and I support him in my role as Minister for Finance and Local Government.

Good afternoon, Minister. To continue the bus theme, particularly in rural areas, it feels to me like this is one area where investing now and thinking long term can benefit us in Wales, particularly those in rural areas. So, just some buses in Ceredigion that are being affected: the Tregaron circular service, the Penrhyn-coch to Pen-bont Rhydybeddau, and Aberystwyth to Devil's Bridge routes. Three other routes: buses now run less often from Aberystwyth to Ponterwyd, to Penrhyn-coch and to Lampeter via Tregaron. And Mid Wales Travel have just announced the halving of services on three routes from Aberystwyth town centre to the university campus, to Borth and Ynyslas, and the Penparcau circular route as well. These are really affecting communities within our rural areas. It is just another appeal that we look at the budget issues. From the roads review yesterday, I hope we have an opportunity to look at the money saved from cutting road construction to our public transport, particularly bus services. I wonder, with you having the responsibility for the budget, whether you're able to give us any information on next year's budget in terms of supporting and funding our bus services. Thank you. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

I'm very grateful for the question and also, as Cefin Campbell has done, for recognising the important role that buses play in terms of serving our rural communities in particular. I will ask the Deputy Minister to provide a greater update as those discussions continue because, as I say, he is leading on those discussions, but I think that one thing he would probably want to highlight is the importance of our Fflecsi pilot scheme. Particularly, it's been an important innovation in some rural areas, including schemes in the Conwy valley and in Pembrokeshire, but also in some urban areas, including Newport and smaller towns such as Denbigh and Ruthin. I think there's a lot to learn from those, but, again, that's not something that will be developing at pace overnight, but certainly something I think that has a really important part to play in the longer term.