So, we'll move on to item 5, which is a Member debate under Standing Order 11.21(iv) on the education maintenance allowance. And I call on Luke Fletcher to move the motion.

Motion NDM8187 Luke Fletcher, Mike Hedges, Adam Price, Jane Dodds, Heledd Fychan, Carolyn Thomas, Sioned Williams

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes:

a) that the Welsh Government retained education maintenance allowance, unlike the UK Government in England;

b) that in Wales, the value of education maintenance allowance has not changed since 2004, and the eligibility thresholds have not changed since 2011;

c) that while education maintenance allowance is an important form of financial support for post-16 learners, it has not kept up with cost-of-living pressures.

2. Calls on the Welsh Government to consider an inflation-linked uplift to the value of education maintenance allowance and a review of the thresholds.

Motion moved.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd, and thank you everyone who jointly submitted this motion. I move the motion.

I will start as I often do when it comes to debating the education maintenance allowance, and praise the Government, and praise the Minister, for continuing to protect it. The fact we have EMA here in Wales, whilst in England they don't, is something we should all be proud of in this place, and it's something we should all be ready to protect.

As we all know, the cost of living has had a detrimental impact on so many of our constituents; amongst them are students, particularly students from low-income households. What we've seen since 2004 is a real-terms cut in EMA. The payment has remained the same, the thresholds have remained the same, since 2011, and now, low-income students are feeling the effects of that more than ever. My £30 got me a lot further than the £30 of a student today.

Now, this is an important debate to have, because EMA and other support programmes can help us to reach our goals in addressing the skills gaps present throughout our economy. This is an investment not just in the futures of people, but in our communities. I'll give an example: all of us are aware of the skills gap in the construction industry, and I've used the construction industry a number of times. The Construction Industry Training Board tells us that 1,400 students within the education system study a construction course. The CITB are also confident that, if all 1,400 of those students, year on year, completed their course, there would be little to no skills gap in construction. The very fact that we have a gap is a sign that things are not right. This also identifies an issue, by the way, with assessing the retention of students, and that is the lack of data around retention. This, of course, must be resolved, but the crux of our debate around EMA has to be around the retention of students.

Of course, I recognise the limitations on the Minister, and I thank him for meeting with me to discuss some of those challenges yesterday, and I hope that his scope for reprioritisation—. And I'm probably coming to the defence of the Minister here—I'm sure he'll be pleased by that—but I would argue, actually, that this goes beyond the education portfolio; this shouldn't just be at his door. What we are talking about here is a social justice issue, what we're also talking about here is an economy and skills issue, and I would hope that Ministers in those portfolios recognise that and will do everything they can to work with the education Minister on this issue.

The state of EMA is not only a financial issue. There are practical problems: problems that can be resolved for very little investment, if any at all. Since September, I've dealt with a number of cases on behalf of students who have seen significant delays in receiving their payments. The worst of them was waiting from September to December for a first payment, and whilst of course payments are backdated, during that period nothing was coming in. In some cases, this meant that some students were unable to attend school or college, which then had an effect on their ability to claim EMA in the first place—a vicious circle—and, in instances like this, the effect on attendance needs to be considered. Worryingly, I had one particular case where a personal tutor had taken a dislike to a student and was recording their attendance down in the wrong way and was refusing to rectify that.

I've raised consistently the complexity of applying for EMA—another practical issue that puts students off applying for EMA in the first place. This is something that must be addressed. And that is why I also believe that there is a need for a top-down review of EMA, looking at the finances, yes, but also the barriers presented to students and how they can overcome them. The reality is, as well, that we have very little literature in Wales around the effects of EMA. We have fantastic work done by the Bevan Foundation. Unfortunately, a lot of it is now out of date, and that's why my office has tried to do our own little review of EMA, but what we do need, of course, is Government support in trying to do that.

I'll conclude, Dirprwy Lywydd, by referencing again the crux of this debate. The crux is the retention of low-income students, not just so that they can realise their own potential, but also benefit our communities. For many of these students, we tell them to see education as a long-term investment, but for so many they can't think in the long term. The long term is tomorrow. Unless we support these students now, we will continue to see an issue with retention, as many have no choice but to seek work. I look forward to contributions from other Members and I look forward to hearing from the Minister. Diolch yn fawr.

I'm speaking today in my capacity as the Chair of the Children, Young People, and Education Committee, and, as a committee, we very much welcome the motion tabled today, and the opportunity it provides for us to debate the EMA. My fellow committee members and I have had a keen interest in the EMA since we first considered it as part of our scrutiny of the Welsh Government's 2022-23 draft budget. Back then, in January 2022, the Minister for Education and Welsh Language told us that extra cost was a key barrier to increasing the £30 a week EMA rate, and, in the Minister's written response to our report, he provided further detail. The Minister wrote that, according to a 2014 Welsh Government review, 80 per cent of students

'stated that they would have enrolled on their course without EMA and that EMA is an essential source of financial support for only the minority of students.'

Of course, the 2014 review was out of date at the time of last year's scrutiny of the draft budget. A lot had changed between 2014 and 2022, as we know only too well. By the time we carried out our scrutiny of the 2023-24 draft budget last month, in the middle of a cost-of-living crisis that disproportionately affects children and young people, the 2014 review had become blind to the extent of the financial challenges faced by learners and their families.

We applaud the Welsh Government's decision to retain the EMA. However, we are concerned about the extent to which maintaining the EMA rate and threshold since 2011 has eroded the value of the EMA and cut the number of learners eligible to receive it. Consequently, we made three recommendations relating to the EMA in our 2023-24 draft budget report.

In the first, we call for the Welsh Government to commission an independent review into the EMA, to report no later than December this year. Twenty per cent of eligible students who contributed to that 2014 Welsh Government review wouldn't have enrolled on their course without the EMA. We don't know what that figure would be today. We also don't know how the EMA impacts on learners' ongoing engagement with their studies once the financial implications of engaging in further studies become clear, or whether it helps them to manage cost-of-living pressures more generally. We believe that policy decisions should be based upon up-to-date and accurate information, and an independent review into the EMA is the best way to get that crucial data.

In our second recommendation, we ask that the Welsh Government provide us with an update on the work it committed to undertake in March 2022 to understand what the allowance rate and income thresholds would look like today for the same proportion of learners when compared to 2004, and how much additional budget that would require. We welcomed the Minister's constructive response back in March last year, but unfortunately we are yet to see the outcome of that work. We look forward to reading about it in the Welsh Government's response to our budget report in a few weeks' time.

Our third recommendation urges the Welsh Government to reconsider its decision to maintain the EMA. Of course, we know full well that the EMA cannot eradicate child poverty, but, from our committee's work and from the work we undertake in our constituencies and regions, we believe that the EMA can help to insulate some young people and their families from the crushing impacts of the cost-of-living crisis. The EMA is no golden bullet, but it might just be that extra incentive that some young people need to take the next step in their education.

For the sake of those young people and their families, we urge the Welsh Government to accept our recommendations and look at this important issue once again. For this reason, I fully welcome this debate and will be supporting the motion. Diolch yn fawr.

Thank you, Luke, for introducing this debate on a subject of such importance in terms of anti-poverty measures and in response to the cost-of-living crisis.

This isn't an issue on which I get countless constituents contacting me, but, for those that do, I know the difference it makes, the difference it makes to their families and to those individuals.

In terms of other measures, of course it's not just a responsibility for the Minister for education, as you outlined, rightly so; it is a cross-Government, cross-portfolio responsibility, certainly social justice. We've had a debate about buses in terms of the importance of making public transport affordable. There wouldn't be as much of a need for the EMA and for the rise if public transport costs were free for young people, for instance. So, there are a number of measures that we could look at, so that it's not just about the EMA. 

My concern, as well as the value, currently—. I of course welcome the fact that we've continued it here in Wales. I dread to think of the situation for those young people were we not in this situation. But, obviously, that £30 doesn't go very far compared to where it used to go. We need to really think about how we ensure that this is no longer a barrier to those young people pursuing education, if we are able to increase, as should happen, in terms of an inflation-linked uplift, which is in this proposal. 

The issue I also want to focus on, which Luke referenced as well, is access to the EMA for those who are eligible. It is concerning that casework that has come in to me has been linked to not giving the money to students for a particular reason. In the guidance, it says:

'as long as you meet your school or college's attendance, performance and behaviour requirements.'

Well, that can be interpreted in a number of different ways. Also, a number of these young people are vulnerable—they have very complex family situations at times, they may be required to care for a parent or care for another family member, which means that they may miss some sessions, which makes them then ineligible for the grant as a whole, meaning that that has a knock-on effect on attendance the following week.

I do really think we need to be working with colleges and so on to ensure that these aren't barriers, that if you miss one particular session you're not then penalised, because there should be that compassion and understanding. In the same way, if we miss a session here in the Senedd because of whatever reason, be it because of a family emergency, we don't miss out in terms of our salaries, so why are we penalising the most vulnerable young people?

Also, in terms of behaviour requirements, we've had a lot of evidence come through in terms of the impact of COVID on mental health, the lack of access to services and the delays in accessing services. That also has an impact on attendance at times. We've seen some colleges maintain virtual options to join, meaning that that can count towards attendance, and others not. So, it's quite a complex situation, I think. 

The key thing is ensuring that those that need the EMA receive it, that there isn't a delay in receiving it, and also that we don't put in bureaucratic steps. The truth of the matter is we should be supporting people through the cost-of-living crisis, so that child poverty rates aren't at the levels they are currently. We need to make public transport affordable. But whilst there needs to be solutions that go across Government, this is a key element, and I fully support Luke's proposal. Not having the EMA would penalise those that desperately need it, and not increasing it will just provide a further barrier to those that need it.

I was very pleased to take the opportunity to co-sign this when Luke asked me to. In fact, he had it back by return of e-mail because I believe this is incredibly important. I want to make two points—firstly the importance of EMA and secondly the importance of increasing it in line with inflation. Of course, the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats opposed it when it was introduced by the Labour Westminster Government. The Liberal Democrat education spokesperson, Phil Willis, said:

'There are significantly more important things to do with £20m than give young people a Christmas bonus.'

Conservative spokesperson Chris Grayling said:

'This is another blatant example of the government trying to fiddle the figures. Bribing young people to sign up for courses they may not complete, might make ministers' targets look achievable—but they do absolutely nothing to help solve this country's...skills shortage.'

I think that tells you what the Conservatives at Westminster and the Liberal Democrats at Westminster think of our young people, and think of people who are less well off. I won't use the word 'poverty' because that's a relative term, but people who are less well off. I rarely talk about it myself—I always feel it's slightly insulting to my parents to do so—but many of us come from backgrounds that were less well off. Not many in this Chamber, but many of us in my constituency and many of my friends. 

The Westminster Government and the Conservative-Liberal Democrat coalition took very little time—it only took them until 20 October 2010—to end the education maintenance allowance scheme in England, because they don't believe in it. They don't believe in helping young people. They don't believe in helping young people whose parents can't afford to send them to public school. This is why we need a more representative Parliament, so that we have people with different life experiences, who understand from their life experience the benefit of EMA-type support. 

I really want to congratulate the Welsh Government for keeping the EMA when it had been cancelled in England. It would have been so easy to cancel it. There you had a simple saving. It would generate very little noise because the people who get these sorts of payments are not the people who write letters to the Western Mail. They're not the people who go out complaining; they're the people who suffer and have problems.

I would like to go through some details from my experience as a college lecturer. Without EMA, many students would not have been able to undertake their studies; many more driven by their family's economic circumstances would, at some stage, have had to drop out. Many of my former students ended up in well-paid ICT jobs, helping both them and the economy. EMA was the difference between unemployment followed by low-skilled and low-paid employment and becoming skilled and well paid. EMA was and is life-changing for many people. It also benefits our economy, increasing the amount of skilled workers. This is investing in young people, investing in our economy and, perhaps, it's one of the best forms of investment in economic development. Bribing companies to bring their branch factories here has failed for as long as I can remember—I'll just mention LG.

Was it initially abused? Yes—by students turning up and doing nothing. This was resolved by continuing payments after satisfactory progress had been made. And to reply to Heledd Fychan, from my experience as a college lecturer, any student who attended regularly who had a good reason for not being there who was making good progress was not going to be stopped getting their EMA. I'm speaking on behalf University and College Union members—we would not have done that.

According to the Bevan Foundation, increasing the EMA by 10 per cent would add £3 a week for everyone receiving it. Clearly, £3 a week is not much. There is an acknowledgment that learners in further education face just as significant a financial pressure as higher education students, who recently had a 9.4 per cent increase, which, I'd better add, is very much needed and very much supported. To many in this Chamber, £3 is less than a cup of coffee. To EMA students, it can be two or three meals. That's two or three meals out of 14 meals a week. This idea that people have three or four meals a day doesn't run for people who are poor. Crucially, it would establish an important principle of annual uplift, matching the UK Government's uprating of most social security benefits.

The Bevan Foundation estimate the cost of an inflation-linked increase will be around £1.7 million. Raising the eligibility to include another 1,000 students would cost £1.1 million. This is obviously affordable from the Welsh Government budget. The Finance Committee discussed this and were in favour of such an uplift unanimously, including the Conservative Member. If anyone doubts its affordability, just check every month how much additional money is released by the Welsh Government to good and deserving recipients: £1 million here, £5 million there, £300,000—you get them every week or so. My argument is that giving money to EMA students is giving it to good and deserving recipients.

Finally, thank you to the Labour Government, which kept the EMA; now is the time to start annual uplifts.

The cost-of-living crisis is going to do exactly what the COVID crisis did. I've heard so many witnesses to inquiries held by both of the committees of which I'm a member—equalities and social justice and children, young people and education—repeat this, or words to that effect, when referring to the undeniable evidence that not only will the impact of this crisis again be deeper in the most deprived areas of Wales, which, of course, will double the death rates of those with less social deprivation, but it's that same inequality and those same vulnerabilities that the cost-of-living crisis is exacerbating. 

This is why the cost-of-living crisis, in my opinion, has to be seen in the same terms as the COVID crisis. That is why those most vulnerable to potential harm should also be shielded by Government in this crisis. As with COVID, the worst-affected will be those who already suffer socioeconomic disadvantage and groups of people who already face barriers as regards housing, employment opportunities, income gaps, health inequalities and education. Poverty is affecting young people aged 16 plus in a unique way. Rising food costs, transport costs and equipment costs make education less affordable to those from low-income families. Young people from less affluent backgrounds can't turn to their families for financial support and many are experiencing real hardship: no heating, little to eat, some facing homelessness. How are they meant to focus on study? 

The needs of this group of young people, of course, in my opinion, should be fully addressed in a comprehensive new child poverty strategy, which we have long called for, with measurable targets and outcomes. The Welsh Government, of course, does not have the power to stop bills soaring and can't ensure that the Tory Westminster Government increases benefits so that no-one has to rely on foodbanks or face cutting down on heat. But this motion speaks to one action it can take to help people who are most at risk of the harms of the cost-of-living crisis: young people from low-income families. Without the support they need, of which the EMA should and could form a part, they will be harmed by the consequences of being denied the chance to fulfil their educational potential, as Mike Hedges rightly illustrated, and the opportunity gap that continues to blight our country will deepen.

The Welsh Government's response to the calls of anti-poverty campaigners such as the Bevan Foundation to uprate the EMA, both in terms of the allowance and in terms of the eligibility threshold, has been that it is simply not affordable. What really isn't affordable is to limit the potential of our most disadvantaged young people who already have far fewer opportunities than better-off learners to lead prosperous, healthy and fulfilling lives. I urge Members to support this motion.

Thanks to Luke Fletcher and other Members for tabling this motion today and giving us the chance to discuss what is a very important issue: how we support our young people so that they can get the most out of their education. It follows on very naturally from last week's debate on the Children, Young People and Education Committee's report into pupil absence, and of course it's very timely when we are all aware of the cost-of-living pressures every person in Wales is facing.

As a starting point and as the first part of the motion reminds us, it is of course to be welcomed that the Welsh Government made the decision to retain education maintenance allowance here. That was in stark contrast, of course, to the Cameron-Clegg UK coalition Government. Seemingly, one of their first actions on taking office was to scrap EMA for English students. I'm reminded that Michael Gove was the education Secretary responsible for that, so it's interesting to see that his commitment to levelling down was just as strong back in 2010. Since then, EMA has been used well by young people in Wales. It has provided an additional level of support, enabling them to stay on in school or college, to continue their education or training, to try and maximise their chances and opportunities. And it's important that we remember this isn't just for young people taking A-levels or BTECs, but it's also used to support young people living in Wales taking basic or independent living skills qualifications too.

I regularly witnessed the positive impact EMA had when I was teaching. It made a real difference and ensured that eligible young people could stay on to continue and complete their studies and achieve their full potential. Many of those young people in receipt of EMA also had part-time jobs, and these would often be on zero-hour contracts, with pressure from employers to work longer and longer hours, and that of course could have a detrimental impact on their studies. With my pastoral role, that became a familiar pattern year after year. I know from my discussions with schools and colleges in my area that it's still a challenge for those 16 to 18-year-olds, with the need or desire to earn more contrasting with study requirements. EMA provides that source of help so young people who may not be able to rely on family support can focus on their courses.

As the motion also reminds us, 2011 saw a positive change to EMA in Wales, where a previous system of banding depending on household income was replaced with a flat rate of £30 for learners. However, as other speakers have mentioned, that's the same flat rate as when EMA was introduced in 2004 and the same flat rate at which it is awarded now. That, I believe, is problematic. By my estimation, in terms of purchasing power, £30 in 2004 is equivalent to just under £59 today, so the value of EMA has been significantly impacted as costs have got higher and higher. Things that EMA was and is used for have become more expensive, so that the payment just won't stretch as far. This will of course have consequences for our young people and the decisions that they make, as I touched on earlier. More and more of our young people will be facing difficult choices and may be making decisions not to continue in education or having to work longer hours in their part-time jobs, which will also have an impact on their studies and on their mental well-being. Others may find that it's not even about having to make a choice at all, finding themselves having to leave education or training completely.

Thresholds for household income have simply remained static. With that being the case, I would like to wholeheartedly endorse the suggestion in the second point of the motion. I hope that Welsh Government will consider a review of both the rate of EMA and the threshold at which it's awarded. It's high time that a detailed review of the working of EMA is considered to help build the evidence base so that we can determine what can be done, how we can best support our 16 to 18-year-olds and meet their needs so that they can continue in school or college. We know that there is tremendous pressure on resources, but EMA is a lifeline to many of our young people who are eligible for it. We must focus on giving them the right support so that they can succeed. I look forward to voting in support of this motion today.

Thank you very much to Luke Fletcher for putting forward this motion and to everyone who co-supports it. 

The EMA has provided vital support to many students in Wales since it was first introduced. It was first introduced as a pilot back in 1999 before it was rolled out across the United Kingdom in 2004-05. Regretfully, the Government in England abolished it as an allowance, but it’s a sign of its popularity and its importance that the Welsh Government, the Scottish Government and the Northern Ireland Executive all continued with the scheme.

The scheme was thoroughly audited 15 years ago, and the research demonstrates clearly that the number of students in receipt of the allowance was increasing, and that a greater number of students were staying on to undertake their studies. These findings were particularly true of students from more deprived backgrounds. And, this allowance is particularly important for children in care.

I have heard of learners who received the allowance and have then go on to study a number of different fields of endeavour. I spoke recently with one girl who received the allowance and went on to study nursing. This is a perfect example of public money being used as an investment in our young people. Thank goodness for the allowance and thank goodness for her. So, there is clear benefit to this vital allowance. But, the need is so much more acute now that we are facing a cost-of-living crisis, which is having a greater impact on the poorest and the most disadvantaged.

Now, I recognise that the Government has maintained the grant here in Wales, and I praise it for doing so, but the unfortunate truth is that far too many children are continuing to lose out or are leaving further education for two main reasons related to the EMA, as noted in the motion, namely that it isn’t enough, and the financial threshold to access the allowance is far too low. 

Back in 2010, households had to earn less than £31,000, or £42,000 in today’s money, to be able to access the grant. Today, the threshold is almost half that in terms of value, namely £23,000. The evidence that I have seen shows that more learners are seeking support despite being in receipt of the EMA. They need help with the cost of courses, meals and technical equipment. And some counties are refusing to pay for transport to attend post-16 education, so in these cases, the EMA is crucial so that learners can access educational opportunities. Also, due to poverty within the family, many young people use the allowance to cover living costs from one day to the next. They use it to buy food, to pay for transport, to buy uniforms and for support for learning, and so on. Some depend on it because they live independently, to pay their bills, their rent and so on. And, as I mentioned, the funding therefore is insufficient. A number of learners are also having to work to earn enough to pay their living costs. And this in turn, as we've heard, can impact their education.

So, once again, I want to conclude by thanking everyone, particularly Luke for tabling this debate. I warmly welcome the commitment that the Government has to continuing and retaining the allowance, but I'll ask the Minister, in his response, if he will change the accessibility threshold, and when he has the opportunity, to increase the allowance further, please. Thank you. 

I call on the Minister for Education and the Welsh Language, Jeremy Miles.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. Members will be aware from previous debates and questions on this issue that we as a Government recognise the positive impact that the EMA can have on young people, and we are still committed, in accordance with the programme for government, to maintaining the allowance. Along with our other commitments to young people and with an annual budget of £17 million, the EMA makes it possible for more than 18,000 young people to remain in post-compulsory education annually.

However, Dirprwy Lywydd, I understand the concerns that EMA has not increased for some time, and welcome the views that Members have expressed on where we can further improve our commitment to young people. I appreciate that young people are also very much feeling the financial strain of the current cost-of-living crisis.

We are continuing to model what impact potential changes might have, including in terms of current and future financial commitments, and we will all want to ensure that any change would be meaningful and impactful as well as affordable. Despite our current serious financial limitations in considering an increase in the rate of EMA, we have expanded the eligible cohort to include some of the most vulnerable young people in Wales. This includes those impacted by Brexit, family members of those with protected immigration status, and young people fleeing the war in Ukraine. The process remains that all young people can apply for EMA at any point in the academic year and, where their family circumstances change, resulting in a drop in income, we encourage young people to apply for EMA with a current-year income assessment. Our schools and colleges work closely with their learners to ensure that they are receiving the support they're entitled to.

We have exemptions to means testing for some our most vulnerable young people. Those in care and foster homes, those on certain benefits, those responsible for a child of their own and those in the youth justice system will all receive the weekly allowance without assessment. To further encourage applications and to simplify the process for young people, the Student Loans Company is developing a new system for applications to be made online and for supporting evidence to be uploaded. We anticipate that this will be ready for the academic year 2023-24 applications. The option for completing a paper application will also remain.

As a means-tested grant, the application process does require a lot of information. Where a student may feel overwhelmed or discouraged by the application process, I would encourage them to speak to their learning centre who can help them complete the necessary forms and applications. We are not ourselves aware of any delays to processing of EMA applications, but do understand that incomplete applications may lead to a delay, and I'm grateful for the discussion I've had with Luke Fletcher in relation to some of the practical implications of EMA payment and have committed to work on any practical issues that are capable of being resolved. On the other hand, applications received within 13 weeks of the course start date will receive backdated payments to the start of the course, even if the evidence came in late, while applications received after that can still receive payment from the time they submit their applications. Students do need to have their attendance confirmed—as many Members have referred to in the debate—to the Student Loans Company by their course provider in order for payment to be released. But if they have missed a payment, they should speak to their learning centre. With the consent of the student, in addition to this, my officials can also speak to the Student Loans Company FE team to help progress any difficulties or delays with applications.

It is important, in the way that Mike Hedges highlighted in his contribution, for young people to discuss their personal circumstances with their course tutor or their provider's EMA co-ordinator. Non-attendance does not always need to result in non-payment. The EMA scheme does permit discretion for those who are unable to maintain a consistent pattern of attendance, perhaps due to caring responsibilities or factors beyond their control, and we have recently issued a fresh reminder to all learning centres to highlight where that discretion can be applied and to ensure that students understand how they can approach them for additional support where needed.

Young people in receipt of EMA can also access a range of additional support. Schools and colleges can offer loan ICT equipment and learning resources, removing the need for their EMA to be spent on essential course items. They may also be able to get free or subsidised transport during their course from their local authority. In addition, over £6 million is being provided to further education institutions for the academic year 2022-23 for the financial contingency fund. This aims to ensure that learners across Wales, including those in receipt of EMA, are not inhibited by financial constraints. For example, eligible learners can receive additional money towards course fees, course materials, childcare costs, food, and other study-related items.

I'd like to thank Luke Fletcher for the debate and to the Labour and Plaid Cymru Members who have supported the motion and contributed to this important debate. To conclude, as a Government, we continue to respond to the current crisis with wide-reaching programmes of household support that will cushion our young people and their families on low incomes. The Government will support the motion today, recognising the limitations on our room for action but also the merits of a review. Recognising Jayne Bryant's contribution, I will be writing to the committee shortly in terms that I hope the committee will welcome. In the meantime, we will continue to use every single lever available to us to support our young people and ensure that we do all we can to reflect the principle that money should never be a barrier to accessing education.

I call on Luke Fletcher to reply to the debate.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I suppose I've become quite predictable now in terms of what I ask about in the Chamber. I've been reliably informed that I actually talk about EMA in my sleep, much to the annoyance of my wife.

But, you know, when we're out in the community, what I'm often asked is, 'What has the Senedd done for us?' EMA is one of the first things I always point to. It was protected by Government, and I would reiterate again how grateful I am, and how a younger version of me was grateful as well for Welsh Government protecting that.

Vikki, I think, raised a very important point. Here's the conflict facing low-income students: 'Do I stay in education, or do I go out and earn?' That was a question I asked myself, and had I chosen the latter, I might not be stood here today now, and that probably would have made the lives of a lot of people a lot easier, but nonetheless, it was EMA, I firmly believe, that got me to this point, amongst other support provided by Welsh Government.

In terms of the work that's being done by committees, Jayne referenced the work done by the young people and education committee—really, really fantastic and worthwhile work. There was work done by the Finance Committee; Mike referenced that—again, fantastic work. And my own committee, as well, looked at EMA as part of our scrutiny around the young person's guarantee. There seems to be a consensus forming, and that's why I'm quite glad as well that the Government is willing to support this motion, of course with the caveat that there are limitations, and I'll very much look forward to seeing the Minister's response to Jayne's committee around a top-down review. I am incredibly grateful, as well, that we'll continue to work on the practical elements, and I look forward to sharing some of the information that we've had through my office on the survey of students' experiences, and I know that the Minister is committed to seriously working on this.

I think Heledd, as well, was really right in what she said. We aren't flooded with casework relating to EMA, but we are dealing with vulnerable people. We talk about getting young people involved in politics, and Mike is right; we need more people from different backgrounds. I've always advocated for getting more working class people involved in politics. Now, what better way would there be to demonstrate that this place is worth getting involved in than by delivering something like EMA that will have a direct impact on especially students from low-income households but also their families?

Fundamentally, I am committed to making this happen. I'm committed to working with the Minister. This isn't, for me, any sort of party political debate. This is something that is personal. I am a direct result of EMA, and I hope that all Members in this Chamber will work cross-party and work with myself and the Minister to make increasing the payments and increasing the thresholds a reality, because God knows, a number of low-income students across Wales need that support, now more than ever.

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes. Yes, I hear objection, and therefore I defer voting on this item until voting time.

Voting deferred until voting time.