The next item is the statement by the Minister for Economy on the innovation strategy. I call on the Minister to make his statement—Vaughan Gething.

Diolch, Llywydd. I welcome this opportunity to update Members on 'Wales innovates', our new innovation strategy, which has been co-developed with the Ministers for health and social services, education and Welsh Language and, of course, climate change. It was officially launched yesterday. Firstly, I'd like to acknowledge and thank the Plaid Cymru designated Members and their leader in the development of the strategy, which is all the stronger for their work and input and fulfils a commitment in the co-operation agreement.

We've developed this strategy following more than a year of independent research and extensive engagement across Wales, including a statutory public consultation where over 160 submissions were received from industry, academia, the public sector and individual citizens. We have put developing a culture of innovation at the heart of this strategy and across every Government department. That means we're committed to working together to achieve a vision that will create a stronger and more resilient economy, better educational outcomes—particularly in tertiary education and research—effective, sustainable health and social care, with better services for vulnerable people, and an ability to respond to the separate emergencies of climate and nature in everything that we do. We intend for innovation to be a major enabler for Wales that will deliver outcomes like better health, better jobs and prosperity for all. We want citizens and communities to feel the benefits, regardless of where they are in Wales, but we have to do this in the face of a new and evolving funding landscape. 

The Deputy Presiding Officer (David Rees) took the Chair.

We know that the traditional source of much of Wales’s investment in research and development—the former EU structural funds—is no more. We know that we will have less money to invest, and less control over how it is invested. Engagement with the EU over the Horizon Europe programme remains unresolved. But we do have positive relationships with EU regions through our ongoing involvement with networks like the Vanguard Initiative with European regional governments. A strategy that is genuinely collaborative and points the way to a different approach is needed now more than ever. So, we are adopting a mission-based approach, which will require recognition and discipline from our stakeholders that we have to priotitise some areas of research and innovation more than others. If we recognise that we can’t support all research, we can prioritise work that is translational. But we can only succeed if all the innovation stakeholders in Wales work together in the collaborative way that we set out in the strategy.

Our four main themes of education, economy, health and well-being, climate and nature will allow us to explore cutting-edge opportunities; to enable us to compete more effectively for UK and international funding and investment; to focus on our evidence-based areas of strength, and to make a contribution for Wales that also adds to the stated UK vision for innovation. Our strategy makes a firm commitment to driving up investment from the UK Government and beyond, which is even more crucial in the world of post-EU funding. I look forward to working with UK innovation agencies, where we have shared ambitions, and to seeing their stated intention made real to significantly increase research, development and innovation investment outside the south-east of England.

We will also have a new approach to funding. Our innovation support will no longer be restricted to businesses and research organisations. It will be open to any established organisation wishing to engage and invest in research, development and innovation. That includes the third sector, local authorities and health boards. By supporting an innovative and entrepreneurial mindset across all sectors, we can approach problems in new ways through the eyes of different and diverse people. We call for equality, both in terms of demographic and regional investment and impact. I want all of our universities, our businesses, our public bodies, and our citizens to collaborate even more closely to create an environment that turns research questions into real-world answers, and inspires our next generation of students, scientists, researchers and entrepreneurs.

As a Government, we understand that our future is inextricably linked to the education of our young people and our ability to embrace a tech-driven entrepreneurial economy. Our new curriculum will help to nurture entrepreneurial skills within our children and young people throughout their educational journey. We can harness the talent, enthusiasm and incredible potential of our young people who, in the future, will not only contribute to the Welsh economy, but will make a real impact with and for people’s lives. We’ll also invest in skills within our workforce, in digital, to service the latest industrial revolution, and in net zero skills. Our plans for these are set out in the net zero skills plan. Embedding net zero skills, in partnership with our industry bodies and delivery organisations, is key to delivering against our climate and nature mission.

Tackling climate change and protecting nature should be at the forefront of our choices in all areas. We need innovation to transform the food, energy and transportation systems in Wales. We also need innovation in other areas to be carried out in a carbon-neutral and resource-efficient way. We’ll require organisations receiving support to measure and understand their impact, and we’ll look to help them on that journey. We will use innovation as a tool to improve our health and care services, prioritising action to help further tackle delayed transfers of care, improve provision across primary, community, emergency and planned care, as well as in cancer and mental health services.

I’m pleased that our vision for innovation will now turn to further action. These will shortly be pulled together in a practical delivery plan. This will be a living document, setting out specific goals, actions, milestones, and it will be monitored and refined to measure impact. In an ever-changing funding landscape, we’ll need to revisit our progress and keep an open mind for what we hope will be different and better opportunities. This strategy is an exemplar of how the Welsh Government’s approach to innovation can benefit the people, environment and businesses of Wales. I look forward to reporting to Members on progress.

Can I thank the Minister for his statement this afternoon? I'm very pleased to hear that this strategy has now been published—this document—and that there will be a delivery plan that is going to sit alongside it. You said, Minister, in your remarks there, that the delivery plan will be published shortly, and it would be useful, I think, for us all to have a timescale by which you expect to be able to publish that.

You didn't refer in your statement to the central innovation team that the strategy document refers to, which appears to me to be quite central to wanting to drive the delivery of this agenda forward across the Welsh Government's different departments and policy areas. That team is going to be critical, I think, to the success of the implementation, and it's going to need to have some teeth and resources. So, can you tell us who and how that team will be made up of, and what resources you're going to put in place behind that team, in order to make sure that it does the job of delivery? It would also be useful, Minister, I think, if you could tell us whether there's going to be any external presence on that team, or whether it's going to be a wholly in-house sort of operation. I do think that having an arm's-length organisation in order to hold the Government to account can sometimes be useful. And it would be helpful to know whether there's any external expertise that you might be able to bring in.

You've referred to the four different specific mission areas, if you like: education, economy, health and well-being, and climate and nature. And obviously, we do have a changing new curriculum. I know that the Welsh Government has done some work trying to promote the digital skills agenda and engagement with STEM subjects, but I cannot see in the new curriculum specifically how innovation is necessarily promoted. I think it would be useful to have some more information on how you see that being embedded in the new curriculum, because I personally don't see that sufficiently emphasised enough at the moment.

In addition to the strategy document, I know that the Welsh Government's going to be expanding its offer to micro, small and medium-sized businesses with some funding and advice. You made reference to the fact, in the launch yesterday, that there will be a new service launched later in the year for those small, micro and medium-sized businesses. Can you tell us whether a launch date has actually been set, and what you're going to do in order to make sure that people are aware of the support that they can get in those smaller businesses, in order that they can access it, and we can all see this innovation flow through into our economy?

Now, I'm very pleased to see the references in the document to a more equal Wales, and that the strategy recognises that there needs to be a fairer geographical distribution of investment in innovation activities. That's music to my years, particularly in north Wales, where we often feel overlooked by Welsh Government investment. But obviously, there are partners in different parts of Wales who the Welsh Government will need to engage with to deliver on this important agenda—you've got regional partnerships, you've got local authorities, you've got business groups, sometimes the chambers of commerce in particular areas. Can you tell us what role they will have in ensuring the roll-out of this vision nationwide, to make sure that there is that local delivery element in addition to the national framework that you've set out?

I'm very pleased to see the emphasis as well on health and well-being. We all know that the NHS in Wales is lagging behind some of its counterparts elsewhere in the UK, in terms of the use of some of the digital technology that's available. We heard reference earlier on today in terms of simple things, like electronic prescriptions, which we don't have in Wales but people have the benefit of elsewhere. We saw during the pandemic there were huge leaps forward in terms of engagement with technology in order to address some of the problems that could arise with the distance that people might have to travel in order to access appointments. But one of the things that the Welsh NHS Confederation raised in response to the draft strategy was that they said that there needed to be more visible links between patient safety, quality and outcomes in the strategy going forward. Have you now addressed those concerns? And if so, can you tell us how you have addressed them?

And then, finally, just in relation to this issue of EU funding, as you will know, my colleague, Paul Davies, has often referred to the fact that we need to get on and implement the recommendations of Professor Graeme Reid's review of government funded research and innovation, and he's not the only one. Many other stakeholders have also said precisely the same. So, can you tell us whether the Welsh Government will finally listen to that chorus of voices that is out there and finally get to grips and make a commitment with implementing the review's recommendations? I think that people want nothing more and nothing less. 

Thank you for the long series of questions. I won't test the Deputy Presiding Officer's patience by giving a long answer to each of, I think the 10 different areas. Look, on the action and delivery plan, I'm expecting that that will be provided in a matter of months, and that should help us, as it's supposed to be a living document, to make sure that we do have milestones and measures within that to go alongside the broader missions. We've made choices in this strategy. Look at those areas where we've got real strengths that already exist in Wales and in different parts of Wales—north, south, east and west—but also look at potential areas for strength in the future. Now, that's about how we look to build on what we can do and what we're really good at here in Wales, rather than trying to do a bit of everything, and so, you'll see that as we go forward with the delivery plan that you've referred to.

Now, I'll try to deal with some of your points about other outcomes as well. We want to see outcomes and see things translated. The reviews we'll undertake at one, three and five years—the first-year review is really important to understand that we are still making the progress that we set out in the mission, but, also, because a number of the funding pieces are uncertain still at this point in time. There's a point about whether the UK Government will really deliver on its mission to use a significant amount of headline budget on innovation to make sure that it doesn't just go into the golden triangle around Oxbridge and a couple of universities in Scotland. It will also be important to see what's happening with the relatively confused landscape—I'll be as polite as I can—in post-EU funds, and, actually, there's policy confusion in there as well with things that are contradictory. We're going to look to try to have a more coherent approach, and we've been working with a range of people in doing that in the run-up to the launch of this strategy as well. That includes businesses being involved in that, it includes higher and further education, and it includes a range of people already engaged. There's also an unfinished piece of work in the UK Government and there's a review that Sir Paul Nurse has been doing—that will have an impact on the funding landscape and some priorities that we'll need to be cognisant of as well.

I do expect that, when we get to the innovation team that is based in my department, and their work not only to co-ordinate what takes place within the Government, but their work with external stakeholders as well—. Because, often, in a country the size of Wales, people are looking for the Welsh Government to carry on with some leadership to help hold the ring, but to draw in those other stakeholders, which is what we've already been doing. But we're also, though, looking to have a joint delivery plan, a joint action plan, with Innovate UK, and that's the first time that we've been able to do that, to secure agreement on that, and they're looking to do that on the basis of the strategy we've launched today. So, we've tried to have a coherent approach to what we're going to do. That should help us with future funding streams. 

In the new curriculum—I just don't accept the Member's characterisation. I think, within the areas of learning and entrepreneurship and innovation, they are there, and it's about how we build on that practically in the work that we do. Much of what business says at this point in time, when they look at the future with all the risks and challenges and opportunities they have, they talk lots about labour and skills and about how we need to be able to get to people not just at 16, 17, 18 and beyond, but actually earlier, to keep those minds open to potential careers that exist. That's not just a point about skills; it is about how we value and embed a culture of innovation and challenge. It was fascinating yesterday, at the launch, to have a range of young people in different parts of Wales saying what they are already doing in looking at innovative ways, so they are thinking about problem solving to go through that, and they're not just—even though Jack Sargeant is in the room—engineers; there is a range of other people thinking about how to deal with challenges in the future. 

And, look, when it comes to the launch of the micro and SME funding, you expect it to happen within the coming months. Again, I will make clear when that fund is being launched. Members will know and will look to go to work with stakeholders. I doubt, sadly, it'll be a headline on television news when we launch that fund, but the people who need to will know about that and the business networks we have are how we're going to be able to try to promote that. And, obviously, for Members from all sides, it would be helpful if they could promote it, because you will all have constituents who will be interested in when that fund comes to launch. 

We definitely care about innovation in all areas across Wales. We've invested lots in innovation in north Wales in a whole range of areas. I was talking with Siemens earlier today, and, with the investment we've done with them in Llanberis, they're engaged in not just manufacturing but really interesting, innovative research as well. So, that is something that has a reach in every part of Wales. And it's one of the points we've made to the UK Government, so they don't perceive research, science, development and innovation as something that takes place in Cardiff and Newport in the semiconductor cluster; we have had to tell them that there are many more areas of strength across Wales, and Sam Kurtz mentioned earlier today the work of IBERS in Aberystwyth. I should say, Llywydd, that's my former undergraduate institution; there's no bias there, obviously. 

Finally, though, on the Reid review, we just need to be honest: we're not going to be able to deliver on what the Reid review suggested we would do, because the funding realities at that time have been completely capsized by not just our leaving the European Union but by the failure to deal, the failure to honour the very clear promises that were made on not a penny being lost to Wales. Our budget has taken real pressure. We're going to be talking about the final budget in the coming weeks, and within that you know very well there is not extra money looking for a home. Our challenge is actually how we prioritise and deal with the things we need to do, the opportunities we can take up, rather than all the things that Members across different parties would want to do. So, I'm not going to engage in a dishonest conversation and pretend we're still in the same position as when the Reid review was published. And Conservative Members need to take some responsibility for the fact that more money has been taken out of Wales and we now have less say over less money. 

Thank you to the Minister for his statement. 

As the Minister rightly pointed out, our departure from the EU has had a detrimental impact on our ability to access funding. What was it, 'Not a penny less, not a power lost'? Now, at least, the innovation strategy launch allows us to have a shared mission across party lines that joins our attention to making Wales a dynamic nation for the future. 

Now, innovation strategies across Europe have seen success and they aren't a new idea. Finland, in 1967, established Sitra, which is a body committed to innovating, regardless of which party is in power. And within 10 years, Sitra achieved education reform, which just so happens to be the same structure that we, as well as much of the world, have followed. So, there is tremendous potential for a Wales innovation strategy like Finland's to not just impact domestic policy but to influence international change as well. 

Now, for Wales, we have an abundance of green energy potential. If we do this right, this innovation strategy has the capability to not only revitalise parts of Wales that have—and still do—experienced economic stagnation but to also place Wales as a leading nation in green innovation and policies. So, to that end, how does the Minister see the strategy feeding into supporting community-owned energy projects? It's important that the strategy links in with many of the projects up and running around Wales already, but also with those that are still in the works. We know already that community energy projects often find it difficult to get off the ground. I would also ask: how does the innovation strategy factor in the need for a just transition as we head towards a greener economy?

Now, by establishing well-defined goals within the strategy, policy makers will have the opportunity to not just influence green economic growth but to also influence the direction, the impact and the purpose of each goal. And, on the point of economic growth, how will this strategy support and assess requests not just from local businesses and SMEs but also social partnerships and co-operatives that might want to conduct research and development but simply haven't got the capital? There lies a way of developing truly homegrown innovation.

Now, although we look forward to future innovations, we must also acknowledge the recent past. The COVID-19 pandemic has undoubtedly had a negative impact on the progress of innovations across Wales, and as a result we must also understand that the mission areas such as the health and care system need critical attention, and we need to act swiftly to remedy this. So, I would be interested to understand how Government might prioritise or be flexible with the missions within this strategy.

Looking at another international comparison, the Research Council of Norway has five core strategic areas. Now, these five strategic areas are intrinsically linked and cannot be achieved without societal change, both within and outside of Norway. As a result, societal change is at the heart of innovation strategy as a whole. Now, if Wales as a society has not bought into policies, then it will be very difficult for them to succeed. A key requirement for success is therefore to have actors and a variety of stakeholders with sufficient knowledge and resources to help connect and embed innovations and novel practices within existing structures and institutions. So, to that end, this will of course be key to achieving the four missions set out, and I'd be interested in hearing the Government's work in bringing those stakeholders together to date.

Thank you for the questions and comments.

Thank you for the questions.

I heard much about about Finland yesterday, the leader of Plaid Cymru referred to Finland at length in his contribution, and of course we have taken an interest in the way that other countries, including Finland, have used innovation as a tool for national improvement and in a range of policy areas. Finland and other Scandinavian countries have had an explicit influence on the way that we've developed policy—not just the foundation phase, but many others as well—and the way that we seek to use our natural assets for the future of the country as well.

I think that goes into the points you were making about green innovation. If you think about the four missions, climate, nature and the economy, there's a really obvious overlap in this area, and it's one of the areas we spent lots of time talking about in this Chamber, not just about the unresolved issues around free ports, but about what we think we can do. With the large energy generation projects around floating offshore wind, there will be more innovation to come, and actually we've seen, in the Deputy Presiding Officer's own constituency, some of that innovation in a range of turbine technology and in different parts of Wales, and some of that could come back to the point about community generation as well, because there is something for us to learn about where we've been successful and where we haven't been as successful as we want to be, and it's also something where I think there's more room for more co-ops. Much of the community generation that has been successful has actually been co-operative, ballot-backed developments as well, and we have a really vibrant co-operative community in Wales. You'd expect me to say that as a Labour and Co-op member, but lots of that innovation does take place. The way we're looking to open up, as I set out in my statement, the ability to access some of that smart funding, should mean there is more opportunity for those organisations, not less, in the way they can access innovation spend in the future, and there are a range of services available to them: Cwmpas Cymru, very obviously, but also Business Wales too.

All of this does take in your point about the just transition. We'll talk about it more in the next statement as well. The transition we wish to make isn't to leave people behind, but how we see innovation improving the lives of people—people whether they're living in communities and the services that they may receive, or indeed people in the world of work and beyond. I want to give you the reassurance that the just transition is something that is a regular feature in the minds of Ministers about the choices we make and about the fact that there's a lot more disruption to come in the future. That can be an opportunity as well as a real risk for the people that we represent.

On your point about COVID-19 innovation, it did prevent a range of areas and innovations that were in train, work that was happening—much of that was interrupted. But I think there's an important point to make here, that actually, because of COVID-19, we had to innovate in a whole range of areas, and we did. There's the way in which, for example, the Welsh ambulance service were able to think again about how they could re-prepare vehicles to be able to go out. That had to happen and, because of the forced innovation, we've ended up with the better system that we have in place now, and, in a range of other areas, the innovation that was forced has actually led people to make different choices. Sometimes it's about products. Sometimes it's about services. Sometimes it's the way that people work. If you look at the innovation that has taken place just in terms of the way we work on a hybrid basis, not just in this place, but it's commonplace in the world of work, where it's possible to do so, three years ago we would not have thought that's the way that people would expect to work in an office environment, for example, today. So, there's much more innovation that is to come. It's not just about, if you like, the obvious people-in-white-coats end of innovation. Much of the innovation that improves our lives come from when we rethink the way we approach the world and the way that we work as well, and then the consistent application of it. And that's one of the things we are talking to our stakeholders about, because sometimes it's about the new and the difficult things, the cutting-edge part of it. At other times, it's about how we translate what we know works much more consistently and effectively. So, we have a new discovery challenge and opportunity. We then also have an implementation and application challenge, which is just as much an issue in the private sector as it is in public services. But, I can honestly say stakeholders are very positive about where we've got to now, and, in the next phase, I look forward to keeping them on board with us.

I very much welcome this statement. If you study successful nations and regions, you find three common themes—the three legs of a successful economy. Innovation, research and development is leg 1, entrepreneurship is leg 2, and high-quality education and highly educated graduates is leg 3. I've got two questions. How are the Welsh Government working with universities to support research and innovation? What financial support is the Welsh Government giving to support testing and patent applications? Without the patent, the benefit of innovation is lost, and we know in Britain, quite often, we've innovated and other countries have actually turned it into a very successful industry.

We've had mention of Finland, which I think has had great successes, but Finland also gives you a warning. Nokia were the biggest makers of mobile phones in the world. You can't buy a Nokia phone today. You can get it wrong as well.

Can I just throw out three areas that you perhaps can think about? Cambridge, Silicon Valley in California, and Mannheim—these are successful areas. Perhaps we can learn from them as well.

On your final point, part of our challenge is that the three areas you mention have had new ideas, they've had a conference of lots of people, and capital has then gone into lots of those new ideas and it's been kept there. Part of our challenge in the way innovation funding works in the UK is that Oxbridge is one of the areas in the golden triangle, with some London institutions, where it continues to crowd in more funding and investment. Our challenge is not just to say, 'We want to stop money going there.' Actually, we're going to need to see more money going to other parts of the UK as well, rather than a reductive competition that simply takes money out of what is already successful. And that's difficult for us, actually, but it's the mission that the UK Government have set when they've increased, I think by over £20 billion, the innovation money they're prepared to spend. That's a good thing. You don't often hear me say good things about the UK Government, but it's a good thing they've been prepared to do that. They've then got to make sure it isn't just about geographic equity in where it's invested in the rest of the UK, but that they recognise the areas of very real strength and opportunity that exist in other parts of the UK, and it's also the consistency of acting in those three areas you've mentioned as well that have been consistent.

I know very well the Member's warning about Nokia. I used to have a Nokia phone, as indeed did all of my friends at one point in time, but none of us do now.

On patents, it's one of the things we want to work on with a range of people to make sure they have got patents. In my former life as a health Minister, I was really interested in what we were doing in life sciences not just to change and improve treatment outcomes and care outcomes for people, but in making sure that people protected their intellectual property. It's one of the risks, actually, for some of the free trade agreements that are being done, to make sure we do have consistent rules that are enforceable in all countries about intellectual property protection as well. And it's certainly something that we do talk to, through our advice services to business and innovators.

And on your point about universities, there's a warning from your local institution about what's happening with the change in funding. Swansea University have been clear that good, high-quality jobs are going because of the change in funding. Now, we've deliberately worked with the university sector. The vice-chancellor of Swansea takes a lead role on some of these areas, on how we're looking to make sure they're alongside us. And part of my challenge to them has been about what universities will do in the future about gaining access to UK funding sources, because, even in the past, before the non-keeping of promises on replacement EU funds, we still wanted our university sector to be better at gaining access to UK funding competition as well. Now there's a real imperative to do so, and that's part of the conversation we've had.

But also, for the higher education sector—further education has a role in innovation as well; I'm not saying it doesn't, but the question was on higher education—part of it is their collective understanding of where they recognise the sector is strong and that there will be different strengths in different institutions, so that we don't have universities competing to knock over each other and say, 'Actually, there are six institutions claiming to be world-leading in the same area in Wales', because we know that's unlikely to be true, but to have a coherent profile from them that will lead into the missions as well, and actually that has informed the areas of strength that we've identified. So, we're in a good place in our relationship with higher education, and I look forward to that being the case through the delivery of this strategy and the delivery plan.

I'd like to declare an interest, namely that my husband is employed by Swansea University.

I would like to talk a little bit in more detail about how the strategy will mitigate the impact of the withdrawal of UK structural funds on Welsh universities specifically. You just mentioned the warning that we've had from Swansea University that up to 240 researchers are facing redundancy in that institution alone. I'm sure you'd agree that redundancies on this scale—and many of them are early-years researchers—would fatally undermine confidence in the research sector in South Wales West and across Wales. Here are the words of one of the researchers who has already been made redundant from one of the programmes. He said, 'I could see so much being achieved each week. Beyond the measurable outcomes, the project was a conduit for connectivity and the development of translational expertise', something you've referred to today as being so key to this strategy and is so important, of course, in the development of the research and technology sector in a small country. So, I'd like to know, Minister, are you developing any medium- and long-term solutions as a part of this strategy, and will you explore short-term bridging measures in the meantime that could perhaps include a match-funded package to stabilise employment and underpin R&D in our universities to stem this loss of intellectual capital?

I wouldn't say it'll fatally undermine confidence in the sector. I don't think it'll kill off everything that exists, but it will cause real damage—damage that is avoidable as well. But the problem is that choices that have been made at a UK level take that money out of the sector, and the deliberate design of the shared prosperity fund in particular was to exclude higher education from that. And if we were having this debate in England, they'd have exactly the same complaints about how they've been carved out of it, and it's a real problem; it's a real and undeniable problem, and you don't normally hear higher education vice chancellors talking about the fact that hundreds of well-paid jobs that we want more of, not less of, in Wales and in every region of the UK, are going because of that funding choice.

Now, the UK Government are aware of that, and, in the conversations I've had directly with George Freeman, the science Minister in the UK Government, they're aware there's a problem, and the challenge is that different parts of the UK Government are not connected with each other in the choices they're all making. I think it'll be too late for some of those people, I'm afraid, and, even with all of the ways that we have tried to work alongside people, the reality is our budgets only stretch so far and we can't fill in all of the damage that has been done. It's why we're looking for a stable relationship with the UK Government, and one where there's honesty about how money will be spent, and to move away from some of the damaging and short-sighted competitive processes and just some honesty about keeping their promises on the money. We will be clear about how we're using the money that we have; we will be working with the university sector on how we use that money on the missions and how we're going to move to look forward, and how that has a genuine translational impact into Welsh communities now and in the future. There are still opportunities, but we could do so much more if we weren't starting from a position where damage has been done with foresight and knowledge of what was to come.

Thank you, Minister. I was really pleased to read the strategy showing how we're seeking to embed innovation across all aspects of Government; it's a very welcome approach, and I think it shows why innovation is vital both for our economy and for other sectors as well.

I was very interested to read the section on the circular economy and on the environmental impact of the foundational economy in particular, which you'll know is an area of great interest to me. From my discussions with businesses in Cynon Valley, I know that many of these smaller, family-run businesses are very keen to invest in, for example, renewable energy sources, or more modern energy-efficient machinery, but this can be really expensive. So, how can we better support these businesses to innovate and modernise? 

My second question is around the strategy's rhetoric for creating critical mass clusters for innovation. I understand that completely, and it might sound like a bit of a paradox, but I also think it's important that we take a whole-Wales approach to that as well. I'll give an example: a business I've mentioned here in this Chamber before in my constituency is Pontus Research Ltd, who do some really cutting-edge, world-leading work on the aquaculture sector, which is not something you'd expect to find on an industrial estate in Hirwaun. So, I note the commitment in another section of the strategy that, quote, 'nobody or place', end quote, is left behind. And so, bearing in mind that example I've given to you—and I know there'll be many others—I'd be keen for details on how Welsh Government will work to really embed these opportunities across Wales, providing support but also proactively reaching outwards to businesses as well.

Great. Thank you. Thank you for the two questions. I think, on your last point first, there's a recognition that clusters aren't just geographic; the clusters of industry sectors and how we draw people together and the connectivity between them as well—. You're right, you wouldn't expect aquaculture in the Cynon Valley necessarily to be a big deal, but it's a big opportunity for Wales when you think about what we already do and what we can do better, and there is really interesting research on that up in Bangor as well. So, it's about how we connect those people up. That's why the point about how we connect—one of those jargon phrases—the innovation ecosystem. But understanding who's doing what where, that's partly our role in the Government; it's also about how we work with business and other organisations to understand where that excellence exists in different parts of Wales and then to make it easier for people to know who they are and who and where they can collaborate with people as well. And, actually, Members do have a really important role in that, in understanding what works really well in their own constituency or region, and then how to promote that across the country, and, you know, the relationships with Ministers in being able to point out that there are opportunities to do more in that.

It's also about how they work with Business Wales as the front door to all of the advice and support, and to direct people to where they can get that support as well. And that also links into your question, I think, about the circular economy and the foundational economy, how we keep more money local. But there's real innovation that takes place there, and it comes back to my point about that some things already work really well but aren't translated into every single business. So, it's what already works, how do you apply it in your own business. And, actually, one of the things, in terms of moving forward, is the Development Bank of Wales and the green business loans scheme they work, because it deals with exactly your point: how do you get more energy efficient, how do you reduce your carbon footprint and reduce your bottom line? It isn't just that loans are available from £1,000 upwards; it's also the consultancy support and advice that exists for those businesses. If you do have businesses that want to improve the way they work and are thinking about energy efficiency to reduce their bottom line as well, definitely go to Business Wales and consider the green business loans scheme that I'm delighted we launched just two weeks ago with the Development Bank of Wales.

Finally, Ken Skates.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Minister, thank you for your statement today and for publishing the innovation strategy. I was particularly keen to read the section on and the focus given to innovation assets. Now, we have many of these in existence around Wales, and they're proving to be fabulous magnets for investment in many communities. One that is currently in development, of course, is the Global Centre for Rail Excellence, and, when it opens in 2025, it will be one of the finest of its kind in western Europe. Indeed, this £400 million programme of work will involve the construction of two test loops and it will be the UK's first-ever net zero in operation railway. Minister, how do you envisage these innovation assets contributing to community cohesion, to prosperity and to innovation in general, not just in the areas where they are based but more widely across Wales, across the UK and around the world? And how would you assess your relationship so far with UK Government Ministers in regard to ensuring that we get as much research, development and innovation pulled away from the golden triangle that you've identified today and which swallows up such a huge proportion of UK Research and Innovation funding? Diolch.

Thank you for the questions. Your point about innovation assets and the example of GCRE, the Global Centre for Rail Excellence, is exactly what I had in my mind, about something where the Welsh Government took a lead, made a choice and saw a gap where something did not exist and we had the potential to create something in Wales, and that's actually levered in money directly from the UK Government, and there'll be private sector money coming in as well. And it will not just be an interesting innovation experiment, but Birmingham, which has Birmingham University, which is one of the leading universities, if not the leading university, on rail innovation in the UK, they're interested; they want to be part of that. We can expect there to be really good jobs in a rural part of Wales directly being created because of the way that we have, as a Government, selected that site with a real gap. And that will produce not just opportunities within the UK, but right across Europe there'll be people, I think, who will want to come to that innovation centre. It means there's more development that will take place not just directly in the rail sector, and not just an opportunity potentially for a museum there, but, actually, because you're going to look at other accommodation needs alongside that, you should have different opportunities, if we think about the environment that it exists in as well. 

So, I'm very keen that we see each of these areas as opportunities to improve the economy in that area, and also to add to the economy of Wales as a whole. And it's all about the story we want to tell about Wales, to not just shout about our own successes but with other parts of the world to see that these things really do happen in Wales and they make a practical difference, as you say, not just for Wales but in other parts of the UK and beyond. And in my conversations with UK Ministers, they're very practical and constructive with a number of them when it comes to what we think we can do, and, thus far, the science Ministers—plural—that I have dealt with have been open minded about recognising they don't have a full picture of where there's innovation excellence in Wales.

The challenge is the consistency in action, and, whilst I'd like to see a different UK Government entirely, I'd welcome a period of stability for at least a few months, which we haven't had for a number of years, because the chopping and the changing of Ministers makes it really difficult to get a consistent answer, and we'll then need to see if the budget in just a few weeks' time actually follows through on the stated good intentions of Ministers involved in the innovation area. It's actually somewhere where we could add to what we're doing with a more grown-up and pragmatic relationship, in direct contrast to what's happened on shared prosperity. This should be an area where there are real strengths not just for Wales, but for the wider UK as well.