Group 8 is the next group of amendments, and these amendments relate to the socially responsible procurement duty. Amendment 4 is the lead amendment in this group. I call on Peredur Owen Griffiths to move and speak to the lead amendment.

Amendment 4 (Peredur Owen Griffiths) moved.

Diolch, Llywydd. As I've noted throughout each stage of this Bill's journey through the Senedd, I want to emphasise once again the importance of making this legislation as strong as possible when it comes to public procurement within Wales. For more than a decade, Plaid Cymru has called for ambitious yet realistic targets, quantitative measures, and clear aims to increase the value added to the Welsh economy through procurement, to bolster our economy and to increase the level of public spending that is awarded to companies, businesses and organisations based in Wales, essentially keeping the public pound in the pockets of our people, communities and our nation. In those 10 plus years, tens of thousands of jobs could have been created in Wales had ambitious targets been set and met.

Amendment 4, brought forward by Plaid Cymru, which could make it a requirement that the socially responsible procurement objectives must set out in quantitative terms how they intend to increase the value added to the Welsh economy through public sector procurement, has been brought forward to address what Plaid Cymru has been calling for and what the Welsh economy desperately needs: a clear aim to increase the amount of public money that is spent in Wales, with local and national suppliers, businesses and organisations. Had procurement targets been set some 10 years ago, the future of many small to medium-sized companies could have been secured by harnessing the power of public sector purchasing. What's more, we could have created opportunities for many small to medium-sized companies to start up by giving them an opportunity to integrate into the supply chain. It would be a massive missed opportunity, therefore, if we did not grasp the opportunity now to do something about this comparatively low level of public procurement in Wales within this legislation. 

The prize to be won from setting a clear intention in quantitative terms on how to add value to local economies through public procurement targets is vast. Plaid Cymru's 2021 Senedd manifesto estimated that 46,000 additional jobs could be created from increasing the level of Welsh public procurement from 52 per cent to 75 per cent. This would be done using the Welsh Government's £6.3 billion public procurement budget, and by working in close partnership with public bodies. Plaid Cymru-controlled Gwynedd council have matched their words by deeds, by supporting local businesses and raising public procurement within the local authority. Their actions have delivered a big boost for the local economy. Therefore, this would be standardising what many bodies are already doing, in line with the stated aim of this legislation, to improve public procurement. In effect, these would be locally owned ambitions that each body would have ownership over, including national bodies such as the Welsh Government itself. Progressive local authorities are already doing it. The authorities that run this Senedd are doing it. This is what can be achieved with political will, and with our amendment to the Bill—to set out in quantitative terms how the socially responsible procurement objectives will increase the value added to the Welsh economy.

The difficulty in collecting data has often been cited as a reason not to pursue targets. We also know that successive Governments of Wales over the years have been averse to setting targets for fear of failure. These matters are not insurmountable, and they certainly do not provide good reason to shy away from a measure that has huge potential to boost our economy. I ask the Deputy Minister, therefore, to think again about the resistance to setting clear goals, by setting a duty through the Bill to define the value added through public procurement in the Welsh economy. Surely we should do this now, especially at a time when our economy needs such a boost. 

Before I finish, it seems that the use of targets as a policy lever available to all Governments—this one included—is something that appeals to some Members of the Cabinet more than others. The Minister for rural affairs and north Wales, as part of the discussion in the Finance Committee meeting less than a month ago, on 9 February 2023, noted:

'I'm a Minister who likes targets; not all Ministers do.'

The Minister went on to say:

'I personally think that targets, when you look at the amount of Welsh food and drink that is procured by our schools, for instance, in school meals, and our hospitals and health boards, I certainly think that we need to increase it.'

The Minister finished the response to my question by saying:

'Whenever you set a target or whenever you set a strategy or a policy, you need to look at where you want to be—what's the end game? Where do you want to go to? And if targets will help us get there, then certainly, I think it's worth looking at.'

With this in mind, I ask the Deputy Minister for Social Partnership and the Welsh Government that she represents: is food procurement around the provision of free school meals, securing and actively choosing locally sourced products and ingredients, as far as possible, not the natural first step to explore the setting of targets? This is particularly relevant when the Welsh Government's shared commitment with Plaid Cymru, as part of the co-operation agreement to deliver universal free school meals for primary school children, is, and I quote, 

'supporting educational attainment and child nutrition whilst also enhancing local food production and distribution chains, benefiting local economies.'

The Deputy Minister has, at the Stage 2 committee debate on this Bill, referred to statutory guidance, and the role of the Welsh Government within that guidance to set out the clear intention of achieving more consistent improvements in the achievement of well-being outcomes, including on the contribution that procurement makes to our economy in Wales. Will the Deputy Minister, in response to our contribution on this amendment, commit to taking action to fully explore how the amendment, should it not be supported by the Government, or any of its backbench today, may influence the statutory guidance? Diolch yn fawr. 

This raises quite a significant issue. Obviously, what the Plaid Cymru amendment aspires to is something that I regard as extremely important. But it also illustrates the limits of our powers. As a Welsh Parliament, we can legislate for the benefit of Wales, but we can't override international agreements, and some of the international agreements have already been mentioned today, namely the one that has been signed with Australia and New Zealand. And were relations with China to break down to such an extent that the meat and dairy arrangements that Australia and New Zealand have with China could immediately lead to the redirection of all those products to our island and to Wales, quite how we would defend ourselves from that is an open question. And it certainly would beg the question as to how public bodies that have to be compliant with the well-being of future generations Act would respond in relation to both our global responsibilities as well as our need to promote a prosperous, resilient, healthier Wales. But I understand that we can't also be legislating on something that would give people in another place an opportunity to interfere with what we are aspiring to do. So, I find this a really difficult and problematic issue that we're going to have to resolve further down the line, I think, because it seems to me that, if we vote for this, then we may put the whole Bill at risk.

The Deputy Minister to contribute, Hannah Blythyn. 

Diolch, Llywydd. Can I thank Members for their contributions? And, actually, can I take this opportunity to thank Jenny Rathbone for the work that she's done on this legislation in her role as chair of the Equality and Social Justice Committee, as well?

Firstly, in relation to amendment 4, this is something that we've spoken at length on during the passage of this legislation with regard to procurement targets, and I have explained previously why it's not appropriate for a provision relating to targets to be included on the face of the Bill, irrespective of whether we call them 'targets' or 'objectives' in quantitative terms. The Bill will require contracting authorities to consider all of the well-being goals, balancing these against costs and quality. This is a complex matter. Focusing on numerical targets in one particular area has the potential to create perverse incentives and sub-optimal outcomes.

The Government did bring forward an amendment at Stage 2 to section 39 of the Bill to make clear the information that we will expect contracting authorities to provide under the annual reporting requirement. This will include information on how an authority’s procurement is benefiting the economy of its area, including through the awarding of contracts to small and medium-sized enterprises. We believe that this is the right approach. I'll have more to say on section 39 when we discuss group 10, but for now, I can confirm that the Government will not be supporting amendment 4.

However, as Peredur set out in his contribution, there is work across Government to really maximise the strength of public procurement in Wales, whether that's through the purchasing of Welsh-made goods and services, or through the work as set out in the co-operation agreement to carry out detailed analysis of public sector supply chains and measuring the economic benefits of a procurement project. I absolutely commit to continuing to work collaboratively with all stakeholders and partners in the development of the statutory guidance that sits alongside this legislation.

In relation to amendment 1, this Government amendment is minor and technical in nature. At Stage 2, a number of amendments were passed that replaced all references to socially responsible procurement goals in the Bill with references to well-being goals. The purpose of those amendments was to strengthen the link between the socially responsible procurement duties and the achievement of well-being goals under the 2015 Act. However, one remaining reference to socially responsible procurement goals in Schedule 2 to the Bill was overlooked at the time. So, Government amendment 1 simply corrects that oversight.

So, in closing, I confirm that the Government will not be supporting amendment 4, but I ask that Members support amendment 1. Diolch.

Peredur Owen Griffiths to reply.

Diolch, Llywydd. If I go to Jenny first on the development of the statutory guidance and looking at locally sourced food, it's something that can be worked through. I don't quite understand the argument that Jenny was making, but I'm sure that the Minister will be working with local suppliers and local authorities to work through those things and to work within the statutory guidance within this Bill. It's disappointing that the Minister doesn't like targets, but we've had this conversation a couple of times, and it comes as no surprise to me, really, on that. But, when we're looking at the perversive outcomes or the unintended consequences discussing this amendment, it's more about the intended consequences of creating tens of thousands of jobs in Wales and the economy, and strong local procurement does that. And what about the desired outcome of adding tens of millions of pounds to the Welsh economy? So, I think we're probably going to have to agree to disagree on those parts.

I do welcome the Minister's comments to improve the collection of data and to give us a better reflection of the current baseline. This is something that the Government tells us is a significant barrier to measuring and therefore setting procurement targets, so any shift towards a system that would enable this in the future, perhaps even with a future Government, is also very welcome. We also welcome the commitments made through the co-operation agreement for the addition of £100,000 to £150,000-worth of funding to promote Welsh-made goods and services. We will continue to work, through the co-operation agreement, on our joint commitment to carry out detailed analysis of public sector supply chains.

I note the Minister's comments on the development of the statutory guidance and the importance of engaging with partners in collaboration in this development. I'm disappointed that the Minister does not fully recognise the opportunity, through the guidance, to give a clear signal to set a policy aim of increasing the level of public procurement of goods and services from local suppliers and businesses. So, to conclude, this Government should focus more on the positive rather than the negative impact of aspects of legislation. This is why I urge the Senedd to vote for this amendment. Diolch.

The question is that amendment 4 be agreed to. Does any Member object? [Objection.] There is objection. We will therefore move to a vote on amendment 4. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 28, no abstentions and 28 against, therefore the vote is tied. I will therefore use my casting vote in the negative against amendment 4. So, the final result: in favour 28, no abstentions and 29 against, therefore, amendment 4 is not agreed.

Amendment 4: For: 28, Against: 28, Abstain: 0

As there was an equality of votes, the Chair used her casting vote in accordance with Standing Order 6.20(ii).

Amendment has been rejected

Amendment 1. Is amendment 1 being moved by the Deputy Minister?

Amendment 1 (Hannah Blythyn) moved.

Yes, it is moved. The question is that amendment 1 be agreed to. Does any Member object? No, therefore, amendment 1 is agreed.

Amendment agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.