Group 1: Social Partnership Council (SPC): pursuit of well-being goals (Amendment 45)

– in the Senedd at 5:26 pm on 7 March 2023.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 5:26, 7 March 2023

(Translated)

Group 1 is our first group of amendments, and these relate to the social partnership council's pursuit of well-being goals. The lead and only amendment in this group is amendment 45, and I call on Jane Dodds to move the amendment and to speak to it.

(Translated)

Amendment 45 (Jane Dodds) moved.

Photo of Jane Dodds Jane Dodds Liberal Democrat 5:26, 7 March 2023

Diolch, Llywydd. I would like to start by placing on record my appreciation of the way that the Deputy Minister has engaged with me throughout this. I'm very grateful to her for that engagement. The purpose of this amendment to this Bill is to allow the social partnership commission to advise on a wider range of issues in relation to the well-being goals in the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015. Like many other Members, I'm very proud that Wales has made a commitment in law to the well-being of our future generations, and I believe that it is absolutely right that this Bill should have the future generations Act at its heart. 

Section 1 of the Bill establishes a social partnership commission that can provide advice and information to Ministers on the duties that the Bill places on Ministers and on public bodies, and in the pursuit of a prosperous well-being goal set out in the future generations Act. My amendment, and this group of amendments, proposes that the social partnership commission should be able to provide advice and information to Ministers on any of the seven well-being goals set out in the future generations Act. So, that would bring into the scope of the commission's work the other six goals. 

The amendment is permissive; it does not require the social partnership commission to report on these goals, but it allows them to do so. Or, indeed, it allows Ministers to seek advice from the commission on any of these points. It does not impose additional work on the commission but allows it to work more widely while reducing the risk that, in an environment where there is likely to be overlap between these goals, potentially valuable work is not ruled out of the commission's scope. I want to make it clear that I do not believe that the social partnership commission needs to duplicate work that is being done elsewhere, most notably by the future generations commissioner. But, I do believe that it needs to be empowered to give advice where it is needed, and, indeed, to be able to respond to requests for advice from Ministers. I hope Members will support the enabling of this amendment. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Photo of Peredur Owen Griffiths Peredur Owen Griffiths Plaid Cymru 5:29, 7 March 2023

Given that this is the opening amendment, I want to take the opportunity to say it is a privilege to be part of this legislative process. This is the first Bill that I've seen through for Plaid Cymru, and it has been an informative and enjoyable process. I wish to place on record my thanks to the Deputy Minister, her officials, the clerking team and my committee colleagues for their diligent and hard work. I also want to thank the various bodies who spoke with me and informed me of the potential pitfalls of the original draft of this Bill. I wholeheartedly believe that we will end up with a stronger and more resilient piece of legislation as a result of this work. I would have preferred it had the Bill gone a bit further in a number of aspects, but you can't win them all. It's important, however, that we have had a debate on the record for us to see where we all stand. Given that you'll be hearing a lot of me this evening, I will wrap things up by saying that I'll be supporting Jane's amendment, and we will be voting in favour. Diolch yn fawr.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 5:30, 7 March 2023

(Translated)

The Deputy Minister to contribute—Hannah Blythyn.

Photo of Hannah Blythyn Hannah Blythyn Labour

Diolch, Llywydd. Can I start by thanking Jane Dodds too for the collaborative way in which we've managed to work together in developing and taking forward this important piece of legislation? Section 1 of the Bill sets out the purposes of the social partnership council, namely to provide information and advice to Ministers on the social partnership duties created by the Bill; socially responsible procurement, as provided for by the Bill; and the pursuit of the 'a prosperous Wales' well-being goal by public bodies when carrying out sustainable development under the well-being of future generations Act 2015.

In relation to section 1(2)(b), the section that Jane Dodds wishes to amend, the explanatory notes for the Bill explain that the purpose of this section is to enable the SPC to provide information or advice about activity taken by public bodies

'to improve the economic well-being of Wales, if that activity is linked to the "A Prosperous Wales" goal.'

This is the well-being goal that makes reference to securing 'decent work', or 'fair work', as it will be when amended by section 20 of this Bill.

Jane Dodds's amendment 45 would, in effect, extend the social partnership council's purview to encompass all of the well-being goals in Part 4 of the 2015 Act. This is, unfortunately, not something that the Government can support. It was never the intention that the social partnership council should have an across-the-board power to advise Ministers on public bodies' pursuit of all seven of the well-being goals. Other bodies will be far better positioned to do that, including, of course, the future generations commissioner. Rather, section 1, as currently drafted, already enables the social partnership council to report on the extent to which public bodies are pursuing the wider well-being goals, but in relation only to the advice and information they provide to Ministers on the social partnership and socially responsible procurement duties placed on public bodies by this Bill. Broadening the scope of the social partnership council's functions more generally, in the way proposed by the amendment, would, in the Government's view, give rise to unnecessary confusion by creating overlapping remits and responsibilities.

It's also the case that the amendment would disrupt the internal coherence of the Bill. That is because section 1(2)(b), both as currently drafted and as per the amendment, contains a signpost to Part 2. It says, '(see Part 2)'. This is intended to direct readers to Part 2, because that is the Part of the Bill that refers to the 'a prosperous Wales' well-being goal, in two places. But Part 2 does not refer to any of the other well-being goals, meaning that, if the amendment is accepted, the signpost to that Part of the Bill will become very confusing. So, for both of those reasons, the Government will not be supporting this amendment, and I urge others to resist the amendment also. Diolch.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 5:33, 7 March 2023

(Translated)

Jane Dodds to reply to the debate.

Photo of Jane Dodds Jane Dodds Liberal Democrat

Diolch yn fawr iawn, and thank you to the Minister as well for that response. We've had various discussions on this, and just, for me, the issue is that it should encompass all seven goals of the well-being of future generations Act. The Government supported that Act. The particular one that I wanted to include was 'a globally responsible Wales', a Wales that actually looks at how it's trading with places and with Governments that have very dubious human rights records. I have spoken with the Minister at length about this, and I feel that this is really at the heart of an international Wales. We want to make sure that we are globally responsible for our trade and for our ability to have those relationships with people, with places, that are actually not abusing their human rights. Many of us, I know, at lunch time, partook of chocolate from Fair Trade Wales. That's exactly what this is about. It's about ensuring that the principles of fair trade, of human rights, are within the Bill—

Photo of Jane Dodds Jane Dodds Liberal Democrat

—and I would like to see those within the Act. Yes, of course I will.

Photo of Alun Davies Alun Davies Labour

I think there'd be widespread support for your position across the Chamber, whatever the voting advice happens to say. I think most people want to see a globally responsible Wales and a Wales that reaches out and doesn't look inwards. I think that's something that we all want to see, and, certainly, from my time working in Oxfam, I remember proposing exactly those things. It may well be that we need to look at how this legislation is implemented, rather than structured and rather than worded, to ensure that, when this legislation is being delivered, those ambitions and that vision is part of the implementation and delivery.

Photo of Jane Dodds Jane Dodds Liberal Democrat 5:35, 7 March 2023

Thank you very much. I'm grateful to Alun Davies for that intervention. It sounds as if you're almost about to support it. I'll be interested to see—[Interruption.] I'll be interested to see whether you will vote for it, or at least abstain, because this is such an important, fundamental issue, and that's why I want it on the Bill. I don't want it to slip from our attention. I don't want it to come back. We live in a world where there are so many human rights abuses. This is an opportunity for Wales to put its stamp on a piece of legislation that says, 'We will not tolerate human rights abuses. We will not tolerate trade with nations that infringe the rights of women, that infringe the rights of minorities.' That's why I want this on the face of the Bill, and I would appeal to anybody who's having second thoughts, perhaps about how they're being told to vote, to consider—to consider—at least abstaining, because that would really make a difference to this Bill and to Wales's position in the world. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 5:36, 7 March 2023

(Translated)

The question that amendment 45 be agreed to. Does any Member object? [Objection.] There is objection. We will therefore proceed to a vote on amendment 45. Open the vote on amendment 45. Close the vote. In favour 13, no abstentions, 43 against. And therefore amendment 45 is not agreed.

(Translated)

Amendment 45: For: 13, Against: 43, Abstain: 0

Amendment has been rejected

Division number 4300 Amendment 45

Aye: 13 MSs

No: 43 MSs

Aye: A-Z by last name

No: A-Z by last name

Absent: 4 MSs

Absent: A-Z by last name