6. What discussions has the Minister had with the Minister for Climate Change regarding the impact that default 20 mph speed limits will have on the Welsh economy? OQ59212

I have regular meetings and conversations with the Minister for Climate Change. 'Llwybr Newydd', our national transport delivery plan, sets out a vision for a transport system that is good for society, the environment and the economy. That will further help to support economic well-being through thriving towns, cities and villages.

Thank you for your response, Minister. I'm sure those regular conversations are enjoyable. You mention there the benefits to businesses and the economy of 20 mph, but of course you'll be fully aware of your own explanatory memorandum on the Restricted Roads (20 mph Speed Limit) (Wales) Order 2022, and, on page 32 of that explanatory memorandum, Minister, and I'll quote, it says:

'Overall an indicative central estimate of the monetised net present value of the policy is calculated to be a negative £4.54bn.'

So, in short, Minister, the Welsh Government's own explanatory memorandum to the Bill says that this default 20 mph speed limit will cost the Welsh economy £4.5 billion. This is people's jobs, it's people's businesses, it's livelihoods that will be impacted as a result of this legislation. It's clear, of course, that we do support 20 mph speed limits outside those areas where it's absolutely necessary, such as schools and hospitals, heavily pedestrianised areas. But this default limit is going to have such a detrimental impact on the economy, as the Minister for the Economy, I would have thought you'd be significantly concerned at the impact it's going to have. So, in your role, Minister, what do you say to residents up and down Wales, and what do you say to residents and businesses in my region in north Wales, who believe that the 20 mph speed limit as a default will slow down the Welsh economy? And where do you see the Welsh economy making up that deficit of £4.5 billion?

Well, of course the 20's Plenty campaign was predicated on an improvement to air quality and improvement to safety as well. I think pedestrians are five times more likely to lose their lives if they're struck at 30 mph compared to 20 mph. So, it's not just a simple one-off, and, of course, I don't believe you were a Member at the time, but, in 2020, in a debate, the majority of the Conservative group voted in favour of this, including the description of this as a commonsense and a safe move by your colleague, Janet Finch-Saunders, at the time. So, there has been widespread support until it comes to action. And this is a default move. Local authorities, who know their communities best, are in a position to change and to alter speed limits on some of those routes, and I think, actually, when you look at the additional one minute in journey times, that's what's then monetised and put into the way that we currently undertake the explanatory memoranda. I'm actually interested in some of the bigger challenges in the questions we've had earlier today. If you think about the over £1 billion lost over three years, if you think about the reality of what that does in terms of choking off growth and opportunities to grow parts of the Welsh economy, there are much bigger challenges facing the economy of Wales today and what we're going to be able to do in the future. I will continue to work constructively with all partners on what it means for the future of Welsh communities that make this a fantastic place to live and to work and to invest in.