1. Questions to the First Minister – in the Senedd at 1:45 pm on 21 March 2023.
Questions now from party leaders. The leader of the Welsh Conservatives, Andrew R.T. Davies.
Thank you, Presiding Officer. Last week, First Minister, the Chancellor presented his budget. A centrepiece of that budget was the childcare offer that will be exclusive to England, because, obviously, those powers and responsibilities reside here in the Senedd and with the Government. Many people have come up to me over the weekend—it's quite surprising the amount of people who have taken note of this particular policy—assuming that it would be here in Wales as well. Can you confirm that the Welsh Government will be bringing forward a policy that will have a childcare offer for nine months to two years, and then, obviously, building on what is already the offer here in Wales?
I'm quite sure that in those conversations, the leader of the opposition has been able to explain to those people that what we see is an attempt in England to catch up with services that are already available here in Wales. It's quite certainly not the other way around. The promises—the aspirations, we might say—that the Chancellor set out, all of them carefully calibrated to make sure they land the other side of a general election, are simply attempting to catch up with the services that are already available here in Wales.
For three and four-year-olds, here in Wales, families get 30 hours of childcare for 48 weeks of the year. In England, that's 38 weeks of the year; 10 weeks fewer in England than you get in Wales. Here in Wales, just last year, in our co-operation agreement with Plaid Cymru, we have extended the reach of the childcare offer for three and four-year-olds to people who are on the cusp of employment, and 3,000 more parents are able to take advantage of that childcare offer here in Wales just on that one aspect.
My understanding is that the Chancellor says that 60,000 more people will enter the workforce as a result of his investment in childcare. We've already got 3,000 as a result of what we did for three and four-year-olds alone last year, and our record of expanding childcare for two-year-olds is something that is simply an aspiration in England. So, the real answer to the people who come up and speak to the leader of the opposition is: we already do far more in Wales than they do in England, and they'll be very lucky indeed if they catch up with where we are already.
First Minister, it was a simple question: are you going to bring a provision forward for one and two-year-olds here in Wales? You're getting the consequentials for the moneys that are being spent in England. It is a realistic proposition that people want to see delivered here in Wales. So, a simple answer could come from you, 'Yes, we will deliver it, because we're having the money, and we will deliver it by this date.' So, can we have clarity around this question? Will you deliver childcare for one and two-year-olds?
Here's a simple answer for the leader of the opposition: we will invest £70 million in capital investment in this sector, so that it can grow and take more children into childcare. There is not a penny piece, not a single penny piece, in the Chancellor's announcement of capital investment in the childcare sector in England. We will provide 100 per cent rate relief for the sector here in Wales: £10 million in rate relief to support the sector. There is not a penny piece in rate relief for the childcare sector in England either. We will introduce an extra 2,500 places for two-year-olds in Wales from April of this year, and another 4,500 new places for two-year-olds in phase 2 from September of this year.
When you add those two figures alone together, we are already—already—promising to do three times as much as the Chancellor is promising to do in England on a proportional basis. That is what we are doing in Wales. I'm not copying anybody else; this is devolved Wales where we make our own decisions. And the decisions we are making will do far, far more for far, far more families, and not on an aspirational basis, not on the basis that this may happen, some time in the distance when you know you won't be in power, we will be doing it in this Senedd term, with the money and the determination that this Senedd provides for it.
'Actual delivery', I hear your backbenchers saying. What people want to know is: will there be a universal childcare offer for one and two-year-olds that will capture people that do not benefit from that 30 hours of free childcare? You actually have the money coming to you to do that. A simple answer could have been, 'Yes, we will deliver it, and people across Wales will enjoy this benefit.' Time and time again, for ideological reasons, you choose not to bring best practice here to Wales, such as the stamp duty and the land transaction tax: £425,000 in England is the starting point for stamp duty; £225,000 is the starting point for land transaction here in Wales. [Interruption.] When it comes to—
I can't hear the leader of the opposition. Can we please allow the First Minister to hear the leader of the opposition?
When it comes to cladding, you don't make the decisions to benefit people who are in tinder boxes and frightened to go to sleep at night. And when it comes to business rates, you won't bring the tapering relief that's available in other parts of the United Kingdom, but we have the highest business rates of any part of the United Kingdom. And now when it comes to childcare, you refuse to bring a universal offer for childcare in to support families the length and breadth of Wales. Why do people feel that you're not doing what's right for them here in Wales, First Minister?
Well, the leader of the opposition can sloganise as much as he likes. I've given him the facts; the facts that here in Wales, we have a far more generous childcare offer and a plan to be even more generous, which we will deliver, because we have already found the money. We are already making the investment. And when the leader of the opposition sloganises at me about business rate relief, let me just remind him of what I told him just a few moments ago: if you are running a childcare business in Wales, you have 100 per cent rate relief through decisions made here in Wales—a decision to support the sector—because you will never grow childcare anywhere if you don't have places for children to go and people there to do the job. We are investing in the places and the people. We will deliver an offer in every part of Wales that doesn't simply match what is theoretically on the table in England, but will be seen in every community here in Wales.
The leader of Plaid Cymru, Adam Price.
Diolch, Llywydd. It was a privilege to be able to talk earlier to members of Covid-19 Bereaved Families for Justice Cymru, who are here in the Senedd today. They told me that their experience of the UK COVID inquiry has deepened their resolve that Wales, like Scotland, needs its own inquiry. The only dedicated Wales-specific component promised so far is module 2B, scheduled to run for two and a half weeks this time next year. Now that's too little time, surely, for us to learn the necessary lessons for Wales; it's too late, and too few voices will be heard. To give a couple of examples: the Older People's Commissioner for Wales is not a core participant. It is in Northern Ireland. I'm told that no expert witnesses have been appointed by the inquiry who are either from Wales or with Wales-specific knowledge. And in a four-country inquiry, surely the risk is we'll be comparing ourselves with the other UK nations, whereas what we should be doing is holding ourselves up to an international comparison. Comparing ourselves with Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock is—to say the least—setting a very low bar.
I'm sorry, I didn't hear the question in what the leader of Plaid Cymru asked me, but I have many times set out the reasons why I believe that the answers that families here in Wales quite rightly wish to receive are best pursued through an inquiry that is able to look at the interconnection between decisions made here in Wales and decisions made elsewhere. I think it's very early days in the life of the inquiry to come to a series of critical conclusions about it. The inquiry is at its formative stage. Judge Hallett continues to hear from people who believe that her remit ought to be pursued in particular ways, and she has been clear that she continues to consider all those views that are put to her as to how her inquiry should operate. Where Members here feel that they have views that would be relevant to the inquiry, they should put them to the inquiry.
Well, can you outline, First Minister, as you've promised to do, what your proposals as a Government are in relation to how a special purpose committee could operate? You did promise to bring forward a motion to the Senedd, and we are yet to receive that. So, if you could update us on that, we'd be very grateful.
Now, one of the reasons we need to learn the lessons quickly is the prospect of another pandemic. The European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control has said in the last week that mutations in the avian flu virus may suggest that the potential for a pandemic in humans is increasing. Dr Nicole Robb of the University of Warwick said yesterday that the UK's testing capacity is currently not advanced enough to cope with the transmission of the H5N1 virus from birds to humans. The new chief scientist at the World Health Organization, Jeremy Farrar, has said that Governments around the world should be investing in a H5N1 vaccine and running phase 1 and phase 2 trials. And one of the lessons for us from the COVID pandemic was that we cannot simply rely on the UK preparedness framework, First Minister. So, are we able to take these steps, suggested by those scientists, here in Wales?
Well, Llywydd, I think that Judge Hallett herself has repeatedly said that the reason that she wishes to conduct her inquiry in the way that she does—of which the leader of Plaid Cymru was critical in his first question—is precisely because she wants to make sure that lessons from the COVID experience are made available as rapidly as possible, because a further pandemic could happen and she wishes to make sure that we've been able to draw the lessons from the COVID experience. So, I think he ought to reflect a little on that in the light of his first questions to me.
As far as preparation for future pandemics is concerned, then of course the Welsh Government is alert to that danger. We follow the World Health Organization and the views of other expert groups in this area. We take part ourselves in exercises to make sure that, insofar as you can, you are scanning the horizon for what might come later, and lessons from COVID will be a very important part of the way in which we do that.
As to the first part of his question, the part to do with a Senedd committee inquiry, I have met with the leader of the opposition—the original motion was in the name of the Conservative Party. I had correspondence with Judge Hallett as a result of that meeting. A reply has been received, and I'm hopeful that I will be able to meet the leader of the opposition again before the end of this term, so that we can continue to explore what might be possible within the context of what is already taking place at the UK level.
First Minister, you will have read the recent coroner reports into the deaths of Gareth Roberts and Domingo David, who both worked for Cardiff and Vale University Health Board. The coroner found that they died from COVID acquired at work and that these deaths should be classified as deaths from industrial disease. The health board argued against that designation. I realise that it is for the UK Government to decide whether COVID should be recognised as an industrial disease for the purposes of industrial disablement benefit, but on the general question, on which the coroner found in favour of the families and the trade unions, that COVID acquired at work should be regarded as an industrial disease, what is the position of the Welsh Government? And do you also agree with the trade unions, who want to see long COVID registered as a disability for the purposes of fair and equal treatment?
As far as the first question is concerned, we continue to review the views of the coroner and to take advice from those who provide the Welsh Government with advice on those matters. As to long COVID, I think the evidence is still emerging. I think it's too early to come to a determination of the sort that the trade unions have so far suggested. Not all the evidence that is emerging actually suggests that long COVID goes on being as serious an impact on somebody's health for as long as the original studies suggested. So, while the evidence continues to be in that emerging stage, I think it's very important to have the debate, I think the views of our trade union colleagues absolutely ought to be part of that, but we continue to follow the science and the evidence, and in relation to long COVID, that is still an emerging rather than a settled picture.