Diolch yn fawr. Questioning the Counsel General here in September 2021, I asked him for his initial response to proposals in the Law Commission's consultation paper on devolved tribunals in Wales to, in particular, reform the Welsh Tribunals unit, the part of the Welsh Government that currently administers most devolved tribunals, into a non-ministerial department.

I questioned the Counsel General here in July last July on the Law Commission's December 2021 final report on devolved tribunals in Wales, which included,

'we are persuaded that the non-ministerial department model is the one that should be adopted for the future administration of the system of devolved tribunals in Wales', and which stated:

'The tribunals service should be operationally independent from the Welsh Government'.

I also noted that, although there is no absolute doctrine of separation of powers in the UK, the concept of separation of powers between the legislature—i.e. Senedd—Executive—i.e. Welsh Government—and the judiciary, has long applied in and across the UK to prevent the concentration of power by providing checks and balances. And I asked the Counsel General:

'What conclusions have you therefore now reached after considering the Law Commission's findings regarding this specific point?'

In his reply, the Counsel General stated,

'the points that the Member raises are absolutely fundamental, and that is that that part of the justice system has to be independent of Government...it has to be a model that ensures the independent operation of the Welsh Tribunals unit'.

This is seen in action in Scotland, where a judge chairs the board of the non-ministerial department there. 

In the report we're debating today, the president of Welsh Tribunals, Sir Wyn Williams, highlights his support for nine major recommendations made by the commission, including that a tribunals service for Wales should be created as a non-ministerial department, and Welsh Ministers and others responsible for the administration of justice in Wales should be subject to a statutory duty to uphold the independence of the Welsh tribunals. He adds, however, that while the Welsh Government supports the Welsh Tribunals unit having a much greater degree of independence, it has not committed to creating a non-ministerial department to administer the Welsh tribunals. As he told the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, he feels that citizens get nervous when there seems to be too much of a connection between the Government and judiciary, so there will be a need to make the Welsh Tribunals unit independent. I move amendment 1 accordingly, calling for a much greater degree of independence for the Welsh Tribunals unit with the creation of a non-ministerial department to administer the Welsh Tribunals unit.

I will concluding by quoting Sir Wyn's statement that the role of the president of Welsh Tribunals

'is not and should not be introspective...I have benefitted substantially from the willingness of colleagues in England, Northern Ireland and Scotland to share with me aspects of their ways of working' and by thanking him—and I will conclude here—for his six years in this role, and wishing him every future success in his life as he goes forward. Thank you.