Well, first of all, I disagree entirely with what you just said, Jenny. I didn't say anything about having 22 individual boards; what I said is that primary care and secondary care don't work well together, and we've had a serious problem with it, and the very big board in north Wales hasn't worked. My advice is to keep Betsi Cadwaladr for back-office functions and primary care, not the 22, and bring in new arrangements for secondary care based upon the three main hospitals. There will be a need for the hospitals to work together, with their own management structure and board, reducing the gap between board to ward.

I'll just go through an e-mail I received on Friday, which shows the problems in health way outside the Minister’s control:

'We have called Llansamlet doctors for an appointment for my grandfather everyday, twice a day, since 27 February for an appointment due to a chest infection as he has chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. We couldn't get through for an appointment at all, despite calling twice a day. His breathing was deteriorating, and as he was not being medicated as he should have been, being a COPD sufferer, we had to borrow a nebuliser and solution to help him. He was uncomfortable and anxious about going to accident and emergency. We were finally able to speak to someone on 6 March. He was told that, because he was smoker, they would not issue antibiotics.

'Later that evening, he was so unwell, we had to dial 111. Then a paramedic came to the house to check him over, provided a rescue package of antibiotics and steroids. The paramedic advised to call the doctor the following day for a doctor to come out and check on him and issue a top-up of his antibiotics and steroids. As advised, we called the doctors, but we could only get through to general enquiries, where the paramedic report was sent by ourselves as the doctors’ surgery is not on online system, so that was the fastest way to get this report over to the surgery. We were told by general enquiries that a doctor would call back. We made them aware that he needed a top-up of his rescue pack, and asked a doctor to call back ASAP to issue this. Unfortunately, no doctor called back. We called again in the afternoon to check if the doctor was going to call back. We were told to wait. We did not receive a call back. We called again on 8 March—still no call back. We called again on 9 March, morning and afternoon— and they only had half a day of his steroids left—

'we tried the pharmacy, but they hadn't been told that his prescription had arrived.

'On 10 March, we called the doctor's again and finally got through to somebody who was willing to listen to us. A doctor was sent out to check on him. The doctor provided us with a prescription for his antibiotics and steroids, along with nebuliser solution. The doctor advised he needed to go into hospital that day. He was admitted to hospital, and by 2 p.m. he was told that half his lung had collapsed. He had fluid drained from it. I was furious to say that this all could have been avoided if, on 27 February, a doctor had actually been prepared to speak to him. To add to this, when the doctor came out, they could not tell when his medication had last been reviewed. The doctor took water tablets off him, as he shouldn't have been taking them, but had been for years.'

This is what is happening. This is not the Minister's fault. There are administrative problems within the health service. This idea that making bigger organisations is going to make it better, it beggars belief that people could keep on saying that with all the experience we've had that these bigger organisations don't work. But, yes, we'll keep on making bigger ones, because eventually they will work. 

Finally, I think we need to right-size health and support the Minister, who I think is doing a very, very good job. I ask the Conservatives to withdraw this motion. It will achieve nothing, and we're working with the health Minister, who's trying to work with us.