Right. As a colleague here, we are elected as Members of the Welsh Parliament, Senedd Cymru, here, so my concern is—. I would imagine that MPs over in England will be holding to account, if they need to, the UK Government, but it's my job to scrutinise this Government and Lee Waters in particular.

Now then, I do remain disappointed, Deputy Minister, that, alongside Transport for Wales, Gwynedd Council—Plaid Cymru—Conwy County Borough Council, you allowed the T19 between Blaenau Ffestiniog and Llandudno to be terminated at such short notice. Three weeks—three weeks—have passed since your Transport for Wales officials made a promise, in my virtual meeting of stakeholders, to look into the Conwy valley Fflecsi service and the 19X as potential solutions. These bus operators have come forward with solutions just to be ignored. It's shocking. To quote a bus company in Aberconwy, 'TfW lacks communication, correspondence and expertise in the marketplace. From the tracks to tarmac, TfW are seriously overwhelmed.' Those are their words, not mine. This is affecting the most vulnerable in society, and TfW know it. They themselves have said that 13 per cent of Welsh households do not have access to a car. Twenty-five per cent of bus users have a disability or long-term illness. And Sustrans Cymru—you'll remember Sustrans Cymru, Lee—has reported that transport poverty is a widespread experience here in Wales. Plaid Cymru's thrust is about the bus emergency scheme, and I support that—yes, of course I do—but that isn't enough. I have no objection to extending BES funding for at least 18 months, but, let's be clear, such action would not provide longer term financial security to bus operators across Wales. To quote a stakeholder, 'The BES scheme is a financial sticking plaster, designed to make good losses for businesses that are doing little, if anything, to actually attract customers back on board'.

Now, I know it's rather like a post office with buses. If you don't use it, you're going to lose it, and I don't think you get that message out enough. It's usually far too late and people are left feeling stranded and isolated. Local bus use is only approximately 75 per cent to 80 per cent of pre-pandemic levels, so tell me today what is the Welsh Government doing about that? We need a major campaign involving Welsh Government, TfW, local authorities and every single operator to market services, not just to get bottoms on bus seats, but to convince the public that using public transport is the best way to access places for retail, social and work. BES should be reliant on an ability to prove growth, investment, improvement in the quality of service and major marketing. However, bus operators I have spoken to have warned of a massive problem only a few stops away, and that is this idea of franchising. One bus company has written to me, and I quote, 'We have zero understanding of what franchising means to the sector'—[Interruption.] Do you want to intervene? [Interruption.] All right.

'Being completely in the dark means that we cannot plan or invest in our businesses or in maintaining critical services'. Now, as someone who emerges from the private sector myself, the number of people in the private sector who are in dismay at the lack of business acumen that your department holds—. Even more worrying is that there is concern in the sector that even you, Deputy Minister, and TfW, don't know either. Individuals working in the sector have suggested to me that the implementation of a London-style—come on, Plaid Cymru, you won't like this—a London-style franchise model across Wales will cost at least £300 million a year. No surprise, then, that the sector is rightly calling for a clear explanation as to why you think franchising is considerably viable. [Interruption.] I did take an intervention.

Across the bus and coach industry, there is huge scepticism as to whether Welsh Government and TfW are actually capable of designing, contracting and managing a pan-Wales franchise framework. Llywydd, we need to hear from the Deputy Minister today not only how he will support bus companies in the short term, but assurance that the longer term plan of franchising is even affordable and deliverable. You don't need me to remind you just how the Welsh Government have handled the actual ownership of an airport. Diolch, Llywydd.