4. Will the First Minister outline how the United Kingdom’s continued membership of the European Union materially affects the economy of Islwyn? OAQ(5)0036(FM)

Well, membership of the EU and continued access to a single market of over 500 million people provides the people of Islwyn, and indeed Wales, with enormous benefits. It accounts for around 40 per cent of our exports, helps fund long-term infrastructure investment and supports Welsh farming.

Thank you, First Minister. As well as the 190,000 Welsh jobs alone that rely directly upon EU funding, my constituents also benefit from the important rights gained from the UK’s membership of the European Union, whether that’s paid leave—[Interruption.] Excuse me—time off for urgent reasons, breaks during the day, health and safety legislation, and I can go on. You’ve also mentioned taxation in terms of tariffs that the party opposite would like to dump on Wales. I could go on and on. In the face of this—and this is my question, Llywydd—what can Welsh Government do to protect workers’ rights in the face of the born-again Thatcherites in this Chamber who would send us back to the 1980s?

Well, I do know that the economists who back Brexit tend to be, shall we say, minimalists when it comes to the protection of workers’ rights. Arch-Thatcherites from the 1980s are indeed people who don’t believe that manufacturing is important. That is what I have heard from Professor Minford, for example. That’s what he’s insinuated. The reality is this: I go abroad and when I bring investment into Wales—and we’ve been successful in doing that—the main question they ask is about EU membership. They are not interested in coming to Wales. They are not interested in coming to the UK. They are interested in accessing the market of 500 million. If we can’t offer that access, that investment won’t come. It’s said that this is our money. It’s not Welsh money. This is money that comes to Wales from Brussels that would go from Brussels to London instead. We can guarantee, because we know in this Chamber, that once you introduce that middle man, the middle man will take a cut. Wales benefits. It’s a net beneficiary, and that money would simply go to London, rather than come to Wales. At least with the situation we have now, it is right to say that that money comes to Wales, and it’s guaranteed that that money would not come to Wales in the future and the people of Wales would lose out.

The First Minister will know of Cwmcarn Forest Drive, an attraction that is an asset to the Islwyn area and one that has benefited from European Union funding. Will the First Minister agree with me that, in order to overcome recent difficulties at Cwmcarn Forest Drive, European funding in the future could be crucial, and will he further agree and commit to Welsh Government working to unlock all possible funding sources to ensure a future for Cwmcarn Forest Drive?

Absolutely right. I know there’ve been issues on the forest drive, of course, with tree disease in years gone by. It’s a hugely useful attraction for the Islwyn constituency, and we know that we need to access all the pots that are available to us in order to maximise the impact on the local economy that the drive provides.

First Minister, between 2014 and 2020, Wales will benefit from around £1.8 billion of European structural fund investment to support communities such as Islwyn. In view of recent warnings that this funding could end after 2020, even if the UK stays in the European Union, what action will you take to ensure that the future of European structural funding for Wales is there?

European structural funding won’t be there at all at the end of this month if things go the way that I would not want them to. There is no guarantee at all that that money would be made up by London. We know that our farmers receive £260 million a year. That is not money we have that we can give, but that money nevertheless is provided to our farmers. There is no way that the south-east Wales metro can go ahead unless we can have access to European money or an equivalent pot. I do not believe that the UK Government will make up, penny for penny, pound for pound, the money that the people of Wales would lose as result of leaving the EU.

Obviously, we all know that there is no such thing as European money; it’s British money coming back to us after they have purloined a half of it. But can I say, perhaps the First Minister isn’t aware that Islwyn is said to be the most Eurosceptic constituency in Wales? Can you blame the constituency? For instance, most of the factories on the Oakdale estate in Islwyn employ almost exclusively migrant labour, as, of course, is widely the case throughout the whole of the south Wales Valleys. Would you like to comment on that, please?

I can. There are enterprises in Wales, like the St Merryn abattoir, that would shut if it wasn’t for the fact that they can access at least some migrant workers. And it means that people who live in the area are able to keep a job that would otherwise be lost to them. There are plenty of examples. General Dynamics. He mentions Oakdale. General Dynamics employs, in the main, people who are local to the area, and they are an important employer in the area. The reality is that he sees things from a perspective of London; I see things from a perspective of Wales. And the reality is that we get money from Europe. That money would stick in London—you would not see it. We would not see it in Wales in the same quantity. It is a reality that we in Wales get back more than we put in to the European Union, and I see things from a Welsh perspective and from the perspective of ensuring that we get prosperity and market access for the people of Wales.