4. Does the First Minister stand by his position from 2012 that it is appropriate for Cardiff Council to have plans to build tens of thousands of new houses within the city’s boundaries, with a large number of those on green fields? OAQ(5)0138(FM)

I have never taken such a position.

Well, First Minister, you said on 14 June that I’ve lived in a land of fantasy for the past three years. Well, you know, I took it to heart, so I did some more research and found the ‘South Wales Echo’ from 5 April 2012, where you were quoted announcing that Labour would introduce a local development plan under the current system, on page 5. Now, the ‘South Wales Echo’, in its editorial, said that the newspaper firmly disagreed with you that tens of thousands of houses had to be built within the city’s limits—the reported comments, which you have subsequently denied. So, my question is: was the editor of the ‘South Wales Echo’ also living in a land of fantasy? And, do you stand by your comments on the matter made in this Chamber?

No, because I never make comments on LDPs or planning applications. That’s the whole point of being in Government. The reason why the story appeared in the paper in that way is because he put it there and phrased it that way. [Laughter.] That’s the reason for it and, you know, I give him his due: he is, you know, terrier-like; he’s still at it. But, I never make any comments on any LDP anywhere in Wales as far as whether it should go ahead or not. There’s a proper procedure for doing that.

First Minister, I don’t know if I’m going to come to your aid, but anyway, let me just remind the Chamber that, over the last 15 years, we’ve built on average 8,000 homes a year in Wales, when trends indicated that we needed to build 12,000 homes a year to keep up with demand. If we are to have any catch up, we probably need to go beyond 12,000 homes a year. The sad fact is that if we don’t face up to the housing shortage and crisis, it’s young people after family homes who would be denied decent living conditions that most of us would’ve enjoyed in our upbringings.

It’s true to say that demand has exceeded supply for many, many years, particularly affordable housing and, of course, that housing has to go where it’s needed—it can’t be put where the demand is low; it has to go where the demand is highest. They’re very difficult decisions for local authorities in terms of how they meet that demand locally in terms of housing and they’re sometimes not without controversy, but the Member is right to say that we have to make sure that we have enough houses available for the people who need them.

I won’t go into the issue of what the First Minister did or didn’t say in 2012, but there is an important issue here regarding the overdevelopment of Cardiff and major housing developments that have been proposed and are likely to go ahead that go against the wishes of most of the current residents of the city. Does the First Minister agree that there is a problem with the lack of accountability of the planning system in Wales, particularly with the Planning Inspectorate? And, should we make moves in the Assembly to dilute the powers of the Planning Inspectorate in Wales?

No, I don’t. I think there has to be a process of examination that is robust. Cardiff is a growing city; its population has expanded mightily over the last 30 years and how you deal with that demand is not simply a matter for Cardiff, it’s a matter for all the authorities around Cardiff, because we know that that demand will be there outside the city boundaries as well. But, we’re never going to get to a position where we’re not building any houses, because that would mean that the demand isn’t being satisfied. So, for local authorities, they have to produce a local development plan, put forward the evidence for their plans and have those plans tested by a planning inspector. I think that’s a robust system to make sure that an LDP has been tested as rigorously and thoroughly as possible in the future.