7. Will the First Minister make a statement on the Welsh Government's plans to support renewable energy production during the fifth Assembly? OAQ(5)0232(FM)

Well, renewable energy is an important part of the energy mix we need to support a prosperous and secure low-carbon Wales. Our ongoing support has delivered dividends for Wales so far, and my Cabinet colleague Lesley Griffiths will make a statement on our energy priorities next month.

First Minister, in the light of recent financial difficulties encountered by Tidal Energy Ltd in west Wales, a company seemingly leading the way in marine energy extraction, what reassurances can you provide that other marine energy projects backed by public money deliver on their objectives, and what plans have your Government got in place to ensure that the skills and knowledge so far gained by Wales as a whole and the Government in particular on renewable energy are not lost from this area?

It’s unfortunate what happened to Tidal Lagoon Power Ltd. I think it’s fair to say that what they were taking forward was more like a research and development project rather than a business project per se. It does have potential, there’s no question about that, and we’re keen those skills are not lost. I have to say it would be hugely useful, of course, if we were to see progress now on the Swansea Bay tidal lagoon so that the work that’s been carried out in St Justinian, for example—I saw for myself what was happening there—can actually be taken forward as part of the skill set that will be needed for the tidal lagoon.

As well as renewable generation, does the First Minister agree with me that sustainable storage and distribution are vital to our sustainable energy future, and does he welcome the groundbreaking research being undertaken into innovative energy storage and distribution by the universities of Cardiff, Swansea and south Wales, through the FLEXIS project, which is looking to develop a demonstration site in Neath Port Talbot?

I do. It’s an excellent example of our universities working together, as well as an example of collaboration between industry and research organisations across Wales and the rest of Europe. It is an EU-funded project, so what will happen to it beyond 2020, of course, is always difficult to predict. Nevertheless, it has great potential, and the fact that so many of our universities have come together to be part of it shows how important a project this is for them.

May I ask the First Minister what he’s doing to enhance people’s understanding of renewable energy in Wales, particularly in terms of the distribution of renewable energy locally for local people in order to increase support for that method? Now, if Sian Gwenllian could be here today, I’m sure she would want me to mention Ynni Ogwen, which is a co-operative scheme to distribute energy locally. There are energy companies being set up by local authorities in England, such as Robin Hood Energy in Nottinghamshire. Isn’t it time for the Government to consider the creation of a renewable energy company for Wales and to distribute energy locally?

Wel, mae yna wasanaeth ynni lleol ar gael, ac mae hynny’n rhoi cefnogaeth i gymunedau a hefyd i SMEs er mwyn iddynt allu datblygu eu prosiectau eu hunain. Trwy’r ‘portal’ y maen nhw’n ei rhedeg, mae grwpiau sydd â diddordeb yn dod at ei gilydd i weld ym mha ffordd y gallen nhw gydweithio er mwyn symud y prosiectau ymlaen. Mae un enghraifft ym Methesda, wrth gwrs, sef y prosiect Ynni Lleol. Mae hynny’n beilot i weld a yw’n bosib sicrhau bod pobl yn gallu cael cymorth i ddefnyddio llai o’r ynni yna nawr a hefyd, wrth gwrs, sicrhau eu bod nhw’n talu llai o arian hefyd.

Whilst there is a role for renewable energy at the margins, does the First Minister agree that an even greater reliance upon renewable energy than we currently have is likely only to impose prohibitive costs upon people? Between 2014 and 2020 already it’s estimated that the average cost of green subsidies and carbon taxes is £3,500 per household, and whilst hydro schemes and possibly even tidal schemes may have a place in the energy mix, because wind is intermittent, it is very expensive, because you have to have back-up power stations to cope when it doesn’t blow or it blows too strongly, and therefore it would be far more sensible to rely more on conventional resources, like coal, for example, just mentioned by Simon Thomas. We sit on some of the best anthracite areas in the world. Where this can be mined commercially, is it not sensible to put that into the energy mix as well?

The air is redolent with irony. When I hear that comment, I have to remind the Member he was part of a party that deliberately closed down coal mines—even those that were profitable. [Interruption.] Even those that were profitable, they closed down. At that time, coal, in his mind, was finished. The reality is that deep mining is not a reality for most of Wales any more—most of the pits that closed down have been built over; their shafts were filled in. He talks about mining economically—he’s talking about opencast. Now, if he wants controversy, I suggest that he talks to people who live next to opencast sites on the way they feel about it. So, what he’s advocating is either more opencast or more imports. We have to remember that there’s no way we can produce the coal that we would need to fuel our power stations. There’s no way we can replace the liquid natural gas—25 per cent of it that comes into the UK comes through Milford Haven. And there are two questions there—firstly, it is more expensive because of the slide of the pound, and, secondly, energy security. We don’t want to be too dependent on importing energy from elsewhere, but the reality is the coal industry was hammered in the 1980s, it was got rid of quite deliberately, and he can’t turn around now and say, ‘Actually, what we want is more coal’, when he did more than anybody else to ensure there was no coal there in the first place.