The following amendments have been selected: amendments 1, 2 and 3 in the name of Jane Hutt, and amendments 4, 5, 6 and 7 in the name of Rhun ap Iorwerth. If amendment 3 is agreed, amendments 4, 5, 6 and 7 will be deselected.

We move on to item 6, which is the Welsh Conservatives debate on older people, and I call on Janet Finch-Saunders to move the motion.

Motion NDM6140 Paul Davies

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Recognises the important and valuable contribution made to Welsh society by older people.

2. Believes that older people deserve dignity and respect, as well as independence and the freedom to make decisions about their own lives.

3. Regrets the Welsh Government’s failure to provide security for older people by setting a cap on costs and protecting £100,000 of assets for those in residential care ensuring people do not lose their life savings and homes to care costs.

4. Notes the findings from a dementia report produced by the Older People’s Commissioner for Wales that highlighted the difficulties those with dementia have in accessing the information, support, and services that can make a big difference to their lives.

5. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) Introduce an Older People’s Rights Bill, to extend and promote the rights of older people;

b) Place a duty on public sector bodies to consult older people when making decisions which affect their lives; and

c) Make Wales the first dementia-friendly nation in the UK.

Motion moved.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. And I move the motion tabled by Paul Davies AM, which seeks to recognise the immense value our older members in our communities contribute to our economy, but also to recognise the needs that they deserve now to, hopefully, assist them to have a long and quality life.

People are living longer—into their 80s, 90s, and even longer. They’ve gone further, to create a wealth to our economy of over £1 billion, through unpaid care, community work, supporting families, and volunteering roles. The UK Government’s triple-lock guarantee on basic state pension means that pensioners now are £1,125 better off per year since the Conservatives came into office in 2010. The Welsh Conservatives share the UK Government’s ambition to continually improve the lives of older people here in Wales, and, through our debate today, we invite this Chamber to do likewise.

From 2012 to 2030, the number of people aged 65 or over in Wales is projected to increase by 292,000. My own local authority of Conwy has the highest proportion of over 65s in Wales, making up 26 per cent of the population. Yes, there is demographic variation across Wales, but we are here to fight for everyone considered an older person in our society. We need innovative and practical solutions to the problems facing our older people across our nation.

A key area that we must improve is in the access to the vital services they require to provide the quality of life they deserve. Access to services for those with disability is key, access for those with sensory loss is vital, and access to services for those with memory loss is crucial. By ‘access’, I mean easy and well signposted, not having to struggle and having to navigate your way around the services that are actually available. For example, 33 per cent of older people report finding it extremely difficult to make a convenient appointment in primary care. We know that older people are disproportionately affected by poor health; 36 per cent state that this limits their day-to-day activity. However, we are very fortunate here in Wales to have an older people’s commissioner who is so obviously passionate about standing up for the rights, needs and welfare of our older generations.

It was recently highlighted, the importance of isolation and loneliness being seen as a public health risk, with over half of those aged 75 now living alone, and 63 per cent of people aged 80 and over saying that they feel lonely all the time. The commissioner’s also warned of very serious allegations relating to the experiences of older people accessing healthcare and treatment. Just this month, I’ve had involvement in two public interest reports by the ombudsman that have highlighted inadequate care, serious inadequate care, and systematic failure by the Betsi Cadwaladr University Local Health Board, and also in the treatment of older patients, including a 132-week wait for cancer treatment.

Policies such as the care in the community agenda: when this agenda came out, I think we all welcomed it, but I’m afraid beds have just been stripped out, in anticipation of this agenda, of our hospital wards. And that has actually happened without the community staffing and infrastructure put in place. We have now a blatant shortage of physios, district nurses, support workers, and OTs. So, basically, they’ve actually put the cart before the horse in terms of the support. Now we have this real, huge void of deficit of care.

Care homes are closing now across Wales, and we’ve lost a few recently in Conwy—elderly mentally ill beds that we simply cannot find replacements for—patients and families given just a month to find a new placement often now being placed miles away from the communities that they’ve lived, worked, grown up in and that they love; often moved miles away.

Bedblocking by those waiting for EMI beds in care homes is rife. One of my own constituents had to wait 18 months in a hospital bed—[Interruption.] Absolutely—waiting just for EMI provision. Indeed, the latest statistics show that 79 per cent of patients aged 65-plus experienced a massive delayed transfer of care: 54 per cent of these delays due to community care, selection of care homes, or waiting for the availability of a care home. There remains a distinct lack of integration between health and social care—so often talked about here as going forward, but it’s just not happening on the ground.

The King’s Fund have warned that longer stays in hospital lead to increased risk of infection, low mood and feelings of poor self-esteem and institutionalism, with many of our elderly patients who are in hospitals actually losing their whole sense of time—what day it is, what month it is, and even what year it is—and it’s wrong. Intermediate care have found that a delay in hospital of just two days negates the additional benefit of intermediate care. Whilst in hospital or care, the elderly can be at particular risk of dehydration, which often results in confusion, pressure ulcers, falls, and urine infections. Today, we had an excellent cross-party group on sepsis and its prevention, the lack of awareness and the number of patients and people who are now quite unaware of the risks of sepsis. And that affects people of all ages and all generations, but it’s particularly dangerous in the elderly.

A pilot campaign on hydration messages increased the number of visitors bringing drinks for relatives from 18 per cent to 63 per cent, but it’s not enough. The Welsh Government must work closely to promote the Welsh NHS’s Water Keeps You Well campaign across all hospitals in Wales, and A Glass Full scheme, piloted in Gwent.

The Assembly’s Public Accounts Committee, on hospital catering and patient nutrition, found that having nutritional and appealing food is an essential part of getting better. I’ve had first-hand experience where I can tell you that nutrition and hydration are equally as important as medication.

The Public Services Ombudsman for Wales’s report earlier this year has highlighted the problems faced in terms of ensuring adequate hydration and nutrition in hospitals outside of normal working hours. Proper monitoring and encouragement by staff and families is required. I’m going to just raise a point on that: quite often we’re told, ‘If we ask them if they want a drink or they want to eat and they say “no”, we’re not allowed to force them’. I have often said that you can encourage someone; you can coax someone. There are different ways if someone puts their mind to it and not enough is actually focused on this.

Our motion calls for Wales to become a dementia-friendly nation. More than 45,000 people in Wales are currently living with dementia—expected to exceed 55,000 by 2021 and over 100,000 by 2055. This is now the biggest cause of death in Britain, accounting for 11.6 per cent of all recorded deaths, yet Wales has the lowest diagnosis rate in the whole of the UK—only 43 per cent of those with dementia have been given a formal diagnosis, compared to 64 per cent in Northern Ireland and Scotland. The UK Government has already invested £50 million in creating dementia-friendly environments, training over 500,000 NHS staff. That is recognition of it and that is taking action, and we want to see that action here in Wales.

The Scottish Government has trained over 500 dementia champions in the NHS—can we have those in the Welsh NHS—and 800 dementia ambassadors in local communities: some of those, please, here. Yet, in Wales, we have just 32 Welsh Government-funded dementia support workers across the whole country, and a shocking one in 10 of those diagnosed were not given any support at all in the first year after their diagnosis. Imagine the grief for them; imagine the strain on their families. We must use innovation from other UK nations to proactively offer a single point of contact immediately following diagnosis and ensure that all health and social care staff have sufficient knowledge of this life-changing condition. Those who work looking after our older people in the healthcare sector very often do an outstanding job, one that takes exceptional amounts of empathy, compassion, patience and understanding. However, they need our support. A recent Health Foundation report has maintained that the money going into the health service in Wales will need to be doubled in the next 10 years in order to provide capacity to look after people of all ages in Wales.

Today’s debate focuses on how we can help to support our older and most valued people within our community who have come through the war, faced famine, faced rations and stood proudly to protect the country to allow for the freedoms—you know, for me to be able to stand here and express myself. There are other aspects to this debate, and I look forward to contributions from my colleagues and other Members across this Chamber. Diolch yn fawr.

Thank you. I have selected the seven amendments to the motion. If amendment 3 is agreed, amendments 4, 5, 6 and 7 will be deselected. I call on the Minister for Social Services and Public Health to formally move amendments 1, 2 and 3 tabled in the name of Jane Hutt.

Amendment 1—Jane Hutt

Delete point 3 and replace with:

Notes the Welsh Government’s commitment to increase the capital limit to £50,000, which will enable more people in Wales to keep more of their assets when entering residential care.

Amendment 2—Jane Hutt

Add as new point after point 3 and renumber accordingly:

Regrets the ongoing delays by the UK Government to the reform of the arrangements for paying for care.

Amendment 3—Jane Hutt

Delete point 5 and replace with:

Notes that:

a) the Older People’s Commissioner for Wales has suggested an Older People’s Rights Bill for Wales;

b) the Welsh Government supports the principles of a Bill;

c) the Welsh Government will take further action to make Wales a dementia friendly country through developing and implementing a new national dementia plan.

Amendments 1, 2 and 3 moved.

Formally.

Formally—thank you. I call on Rhun ap Iorwerth to move amendments 4, 5, 6 and 7 tabled in his name—Rhun.

Amendment 4—Rhun ap Iorwerth

Delete sub-point 5a), and replace with:

‘supports the work of the Older People’s Commissioner for Wales in working towards extending and promoting the rights of older people;’

Amendment 5—Rhun ap Iorwerth

Delete sub-point 5b) and replace with:

‘supports the Older People’s Commissioner for Wales in ensuring the voices of older people are heard in relation to the planning of public services;’

Amendment 6—Rhun ap Iorwerth

Add as new sub-point at end of point 5:

‘build more supported housing to broaden choice and compliment residential and institutional care.’

Amendment 7—Rhun ap Iorwerth

Add as new sub-point at end of point 5:

‘work with police and crime commissioners and local authorities to protect older people from scams, mis-selling and other forms of financial exploitation.’

Amendments 4, 5, 6 and 7 moved.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, for the opportunity to participate in this debate. It is an important debate, and I formally move the amendments in my name. We certainly welcome this debate. We support much of the wording of the motion, but certainly all of the sentiment that underpins the motion.

Far too often, I think, when it comes to debates on how to provide care and social care and so on for the older population in future, one can feel that the contribution of older people themselves isn’t recognised. The debate is often one about how we fund care for older people, and I think that can unintentionally create the impression that older people are somehow a tax on public finances, and a tax on society. So, it’s worth my while, I think, making this very clear and unambiguous: older people are not a problem, they’re not an economic drain or any sort of other drain on our society. They make a hugely important contribution to our society, and I hope to be one of them myself one day.

Providing appropriate, decent care and maintaining the health and dignity of our older population is part of the social contract that should never be seen as optional by a Government or anyone else. It is often something that is ignored that people over 65 years of age make a significant economic contribution, as well as a significant social contribution here in Wales. They provide some £260 million-worth of free childcare for grandsons and granddaughters, and £0.5 billion in voluntary works, and we could enhance that list much further in terms of the contributions that older people make. And, if a point comes when there is a cost to caring for older people, let’s never forget the contribution that they have made earlier during their lives.

The Llywydd took the Chair.

I will turn to the amendments—there are a number of them. We won’t be supporting the Government amendments. We don’t feel that setting that cap of £50,000 reflects fairness in the system. We would prefer to see more progress towards putting an absolute end to this dementia tax that we currently have. Amendment 2, in our view, is irrelevant. The Welsh Government could reform the arrangements for care payments themselves, however much delay happens from the UK Government. Amendment 3 would delete our own amendment, although we have no opposition to the principles contained within amendment 3.

Turning to our own amendments, we have yet to be convinced of the need for a specific piece of legislation on the rights of older people. We need to secure the rights of everyone, of course. Also, of course, the human rights landscape is changing significantly at the moment, because of the UK Government’s intention to scrap people’s rights following the vote on Europe. Any legislation passed here could be replaced. So, that’s the reason for amendment 4.

Amendment 5 changes the wording of the original motion a little, but reflects our confidence in the older people’s commissioner in providing a voice for older people in Wales.

Amendment 6 recognises that there is a gap in semi-residential and supported housing at the moment, and that we need to fill that gap. And amendment 7 is one that we were keen to add, and it calls on the Welsh Government to work with the police and crime commissioners to prevent older people from suffering scams and fraud. We are aware, of course, that this is a huge problem—that aggressive selling and fraudulent selling actually damages older people’s financial well-being, as well as their health and mental well-being, and we have to tackle that.

So, there’s a great deal to be welcomed in this motion, and we certainly hope that we can make progress in terms of making Wales a nation where older people can feel that they can grow old in safety, which will mean that we are a dementia-friendly nation, that we protect older people from scams and fraud, as I’ve already mentioned, and ensure that our public services assist people to live independently for as long as possible and for as long as they choose to do that, and to do so with dignity and respect.

Thank you, madam Presiding Officer. Wales has an ageing population. This brings a number of benefits and opportunities. Older people are often at the heart of their communities. Whether it is by volunteering for charity and community work, or by providing childcare for their families, older people make an immense contribution. It benefits society therefore to allow older people to live full and inclusive lives.

However, an ageing population also brings a number of challenges. Many are unable to live full lives due to ill health. Forty per cent of people over the age of 65 in Wales say their health is fair or poor. Older people are the main users of primary care services in the NHS, and yet, as Age UK Wales have pointed out, primary care services are not always able to meet older people’s needs. A third of older people who wanted to see their GP in the last 12 months found it difficult to make a convenient appointment for themselves.

Modernising the way surgeries work, such as making greater use of online services, is important. But changes must take into account the needs of older people and ensure that they are not left behind. Healthcare must be tailored to meet the needs of our older population. Dementia has overtaken heart disease as Britain’s biggest killer. One in three people aged over 65 will develop dementia and the main form of dementia is Alzheimer’s disease. There are at present more than 45,000 people, as Janet mentioned, in Wales living with dementia. What a striking figure. This figure is projected to increase by nearly a third by 2021.

This terrible condition means families watching their loved ones slipping away until they no longer even recognise them. What a dreadful feeling among the family members. Evidence suggests that where people receive an early diagnosis and are helped to access information, support and care, they are often able to adapt well to living with dementia.

We need our GPs to check more closely for signs of dementia, because the earlier it is diagnosed, the easier life can be for those living with the condition. Once dementia has been diagnosed, it is important sufferers receive support to enable them to remain in their own homes as far as possible. The Alzheimer’s Society says that more than one in 10 people living with dementia will be forced to go into care homes early due to lack of support. There has been a lack of progress made in improving dementia care in people’s homes. We need to support the further development of dementia support schemes in the community—an extension of dementia training schemes. It is essential that care workers receive appropriate training in order for quality care to be provided. Quality care delivered to a high standard has a significant impact on quality of life, and these people deserve to be treated with dignity.

I believe that there’s a need for an older people’s rights Bill. Presiding Officer, one area that hasn’t been covered so far is: say two people, a husband and wife, and the husband has dementia, the wife is virtually lost, as the husband is totally responsible for the financial affairs of the family and other affairs—external, outside the home. Especially in certain communities in the country, women virtually don’t deal with those affairs. So, when husbands get this sort of problem—I mean dementia—the women are virtually lost. Nobody is there to help them on financial training, social training and cultural training at all in our health service. That area we need to cover, because that gives a long-term impact, not only on the family but on the children also.

This is important. I’m talking about dementia because there are three Ds that I heard about very recently: one is death, one is divorce and one is dementia. We need to work very strongly—very, very compassionately—to make sure our people do not suffer in this country. There should be, I hope, a cure very shortly in this world so that people can have a healthy life. This is supported by the older people’s commissioner, who called for legislation, and I quote, and this is on dementia:

‘To protect and promote the rights of older people…to enjoy lives that are free of abuse, neglect, ageism and discrimination…to be able to participate fully in their communities’ and thrive in old age. It is completely unacceptable that older people, particularly vulnerable people, should see their rights diminish as they get older. Finally, they deserve dignity and respect, as well as independence and freedom to make decisions about their own lives in Wales. Thank you very much. I support this motion.

Lynne Neagle.

Thank you, Presiding Officer, for the opportunity to speak in this debate today. The rights and support for people with dementia is a subject very close to my heart, and I welcome the opportunity to focus on it again today. In January this year, I led a debate on the need for a national dementia strategy and made the case that dementia is the health challenge of our time.

It is always worth reminding ourselves of the sheer scale of the problem we’re facing in relation to dementia. There’s currently an estimated 45,000 people in Wales living with dementia, and these numbers will rise. By 2055, it is likely there will be over 100,000 people living with dementia in Wales. Behind every one of those 45,000 people is a whole family living with the aftermath of a dementia diagnosis, and I really welcome the older people’s commissioner’s report, ‘Dementia: More than Just Memory Loss’, and the voice that it gives to many dementia sufferers and their carers about the massive and wide-ranging impact the illness has on the whole family.

I also welcome the action the commissioner is taking to follow up the report with health boards and local authorities in Wales, and I am sure she will pursue the improvements that are needed with the rigour with which she has always approached her job as commissioner.

But the scale of the dementia challenge we face I believe means that it is imperative that we approach that challenge with the same energy, vigour and resources with which we approach diseases like cancer in Wales. It is notable that there was widespread coverage this week of the fact that dementia overtook heart disease as the major cause of death in the UK.

There’s been fantastic progress here in Wales to turn us into a dementia-friendly nation, and there are over 20 established dementia-friendly communities in Wales. I am incredibly proud that my constituency of Torfaen was the second in Wales to achieve this dementia-friendly status. From Artie Craftie, a craft shop and post office in Blaenavon, to Big Pit mining museum, Pontypool indoor market and even a community farm—they’ve all become dementia-friendly accredited. The library service in Torfaen was the first to become a dementia-friendly service, and all the staff there are dementia friends. From a dementia-friendly community room there, there’s a carers’ collection focusing on how carers can best assist the person they’re caring for, as well as books on health and well-being. All these initiatives have arisen from the dementia-friendly initiative led by Torfaen council. But, as always, there is more to be done. It is crucial that the dementia strategy the Welsh Government brings forward in the months ahead is ambitious and well resourced, and that it is a comprehensive road map of the patient’s journey from diagnosis, enabling independent living for as long as possible, through to palliative care and a dignified death.

There are two particular areas that I am particularly concerned about. The first is diagnosis rates. As we know, the target is a 50 per cent diagnosis rate for people with dementia by this year. I do not believe that is ambitious enough. It would not be good enough for people with cancer to only have 50 per cent of them diagnosed, and it should not be good enough for people with dementia.

The other major area of concern is the number of dementia support workers that are planned under the strategy. Currently, it would be a minimum of one dementia support worker per two GP clusters in Wales, which would be 32 support workers across the whole of Wales. This is simply not enough. On current diagnosis rates, we would need around 370 support workers to meet the needs that we have heard about today. While I welcome what the Cabinet Secretary has said about keeping this under review, I look forward to hearing more from the Minister and the Cabinet Secretary in the months ahead as to how this target can be improved.

Just finally, to conclude, a dementia strategy is as good as any strategy on paper. I would also like to know from the Welsh Government what the plans are to actually drive that strategy forward. We know that we are very good at producing good policies in Welsh Government, but policies are only as good as their implementation.

Thank you for giving way, Lynne. I totally agree with you on that: a strategy is on paper. The whole point of dementia-friendly communities is that they rely very closely on the local community coming together and providing those opportunities for people in that area suffering from dementia, so this has to be led from the ground up.

It does have to be led from the ground up, but I also think that if you’ve got systems in place like the need for support workers and targets for diagnosis rates, those have to be driven by Government, and I look forward to hearing form Welsh Government how that strategy will go from being a document on paper to something that actually transforms the lives of people with dementia and their families in Wales.

May I start by commending the work that Lynne Neagle has done in the area of dementia? I think that was a very passionate speech and she challenges her own side, as well, appropriately, which I think is really being an effective champion, then, for those with dementia.

I want to talk a little bit about those older people who end up being carers. There are more carers amongst older people in the population on average. As people age, obviously, the susceptibility of diseases like dementia increases. This is a double challenge. There’s the caring responsibilities themselves, and they are often performed by people who are a little frail and susceptible to illness themselves, and they are not supported enough in many ways. The lack of appropriate respite care continues to be a real challenge in the support of carers and means—you know, particularly for older people, if they’re in the situation where they are usually caring for a spouse, that takes so much of their time that their wider social circle starts to shrink and they become very, very isolated. And often, when they then see their partner die, they are left without any bearing in terms of a way forward, because they’re dealing with bereavement, they’ve lost that daily task that, although exhausting, often, kept them focused, and they don’t have the social circle they once enjoyed. So, I think it’s a real problem and it leads into, for them, a very intense period of loneliness.

A couple of people have mentioned loneliness and that is something we really need to focus on, because as soon as your retire, the daily contact you have in your workplace, obviously that ceases, and for a lot of people, an awful lot of interaction can stop if they don’t have access to other meaningful activities and social recreation and whatever.

I also think that, when we look at older people as making a very valuable contribution to society, we should recall they can do a lot for the younger generation and they want to. There’s a lot of evidence out there that older people acting as mentors to people, say, who have low skills or poor literacy, or even those who have been on the edge of ending up in the criminal justice system, there’s a lot of evidence that contact with older people and being in programmes where they’re involved together can really lead to very good results. And older people are often very keen to volunteer the time they have, but also the vocation they feel for the younger generation is a very intense one, and I think that’s something we shouldn’t forget.

Can I just, finally, make the point about the need for better—? We need to shape our urban places, I think, with much more ambition. I do see many changes in the years ahead, as we see the transport system change and the demands on the environment and to improve air quality and other things. And this, I think, will be of great benefit to older people. Diesel cars have probably kept an awful lot of older people indoors, especially at times like the rush hour or intense traffic through special events, or whatever. The respiratory health of older people is dramatically affected by the pollutants that are pumped out by diesel vehicles in particular, but also in general by the scale of traffic we have at the moment. So, better traffic management, seeing our urban places as principally for people and pedestrians, rather than for the motor car or other forms of motor transport, that’s very important.

If I’m talking about transport as well, we need to pay more attention to the very needy, who have very poor mobility or are frail, as they can’t get to the local bus stop, often, and even if the bus is accessible, because the design of the bus stops now has improved, unless they have transport-to-home services, community buses, car schemes or whatever, which are run by volunteers that will transport older people, they are really a long way from being able to access services, even if they live in an urban area. Obviously, it’s much, much worse if they’re living in rural areas.

And finally, other amenities like—what’s happened to our public benches? I can remember a time when you used to see them not just in parks, but everywhere. And that’s really, really important. Something I find now, as I get older, and I might be spending a morning in Cardiff, or whatever: where are the public lavatories? We had a shopping revolution in the late nineteenth century because public lavatories were provided. Without them, women just could not, really, be very far from their homes, because they did not have facilities available. Well, it’s the same for older people and, of course, they often need disabled facilities as well, or at least toilets that are of a reasonable size so that they can move about within them. So these things, really: how we construct the urban environment. We need to be thinking about how older people are going to thrive in the future and the services and the help they will need. Thank you very much.

I would like to thank the Conservatives for bringing forward the motion today. I’m pleased to say that UKIP supports the motion as it has been put forward by the Conservatives. The problems that older people face in our society can be complex, but one of the most commonly occurring issues, as several speakers have already made reference to, is that of loneliness. We know this from the calls received by the charity Silver Line, which many Members will know as a kind of older person’s equivalent of Childline. Since it was launched in November 2013, more than half of the callers say that they contact the charity simply because they have no-one else to speak to. So, we do have to try to find ways to get lonely older people into greater social contact. How that is to be achieved is a rather difficult subject.

Dementia is becoming a major problem, as today’s motion recognises. Many speakers have seen the figure of 45,000 sufferers in Wales and Lynne pointed out that, in the next 40 years, that is projected to more than double. So, this will become an increasing problem for us. Action is therefore needed to protect the interests of older people. An older people’s commissioner has been a good start, as the reports from her department can help to highlight the problems that older people face, but we also need some statutory action to address some of the problems. I take on board points that have been made, notably by Nick Ramsay, that statutory action in itself will not be enough, but I think that, on the whole, statutory action is necessary and that is why we support the Conservative motion today. Thanks.

Older people in Wales are everyday heroes, making huge contributions through work, activism, volunteering and community work, and caring for families and providing childcare, that are often overlooked by society. They deserve dignity and respect, independence and the freedom to make decisions about their own lives.

In last week’s report from the Future Generations Commissioner for Wales, ‘Talking Future Generations’, quotes from her stakeholder events in north Wales include,

‘The people making the decisions need to walk the same path as the people on the ground.’

Cartrefi Conwy was formed when Conwy tenants voted to transfer their council housing stock. As Cartrefi Conwy stated from the outset, their challenge was not only to bring all properties up to the Welsh housing quality standard by 2012, but also

‘to create communities to be proud of.’

This summer I visited their focus on photography group with their independent living manager and their older persons engagement co-ordinator to learn first-hand from the older person group members about both the project and how it had contributed to their own independence and well-being. I was also a guest, alongside Janet Finch-Saunders, at Cartrefi Conwy’s Older Persons Day on 30 September this year, celebrating their older tenants and the contributions they make to the communities in which they live, and publicising the services available to their older people in order to promote independent living—empowering and enabling them to take control of their lives, not letting their age or anything else affect their independence or quality of life.

If they have not already done so, I urge those local authorities that retained their housing stock to embrace a similar approach. Our 2016 manifesto stated that a Welsh Conservative Government would implement a £400 weekly cap on residential care, and protect £100,000 of assets for those in residential care. The Welsh Government’s failure to do the same is regrettable. As a constituent asked me, ‘Is it fair that some people have to effectively sell their homes to pay for their residential care costs?’

The Older People’s Commissioner for Wales’s ‘Dementia: more than just memory loss’ report found that there is still a lack of knowledge and understanding of dementia, that dementia services often lack the flexibility to effectively meet the needs of people living with dementia and their carers, that a lack of co-operation between services creates unnecessary difficulties and barriers for people living with dementia and their carers, and that there are still significant variations across Wales in the quality of services available.

The Alzheimer’s Society are calling for the proposed Welsh Government dementia strategy to set out clear targets for increased dementia diagnosis rates, currently the lowest in any UK nation, to ensure support from a dementia support worker, to ensure dementia awareness training in all clinical and care settings, and much more. I encourage people to attend the north Wales consultation events at Bangor University on 18 November and 12 December. Age Cymru are calling for an urgent improvement in services and support around dementia, including community settings, the extension of dementia training schemes, and integrated, person-centred NHS and social care services at point of delivery.

The Older People’s Commissioner for Wales has warned that there is an increasing problem of older people being specifically targeted by criminals due to their supposed vulnerabilities. Despite this, there remains a gap in the law that does not recognise these crimes committed against older people, because of their age, as hate crimes.

I welcome the Institute of Fundraising ruling that fundraisers must not knock on doors with ‘no cold calling’ stickers. I commend Flintshire and Wrexham Online Watch Link Association’s no-cold-calling zones watch schemes, which are about supporting the people who live in them to keep safe and improve their quality of life, rather than simply putting up a street sign and providing window stickers.

As Age Cymru states, negative attitudes towards older people and ageing are pervasive in our society, based on inaccurate stereotypes and assumptions about a person’s ability and competence due to their age. They add that the Welsh Government should further explore what role the introduction of a bill of rights for older people could play in lobbying at UK and international levels and more broadly for greater legal protection for older people.

I therefore commend the call in our motion for the introduction of an older people's rights Bill to extend and promote the rights of older people, and for a duty on public sector bodies to consult older people when making decisions that affect their lives and to design and deliver services with them, rather than simply give them to them. Thank you.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak in this very important debate. Let nobody in this Chamber or watching outside be in any doubt that this Welsh Labour Government is committed to providing older people in Wales with good-quality responsive public services and is enabling older people across Wales to lead more independent lives.

Following our important Welsh Labour manifesto commitment to enable people to keep more of their hard-earned money when in residential care, the Minister for Social Services and Public Health recently announced that the new £50,000 limit will be implemented in phases, starting with an increase to £30,000 from April next year. The current capital limit in England is just £23,250. Further, the UK Tory Government has now delayed its reform of the paying for care arrangements until at least 2020. Indeed, the Conservative group here could better spend their time lobbying their Conservative parliamentary colleagues to get their own house in order. And as Conservative UK parliamentarians are finding the time to have their photographs taken with the Prime Minister in readiness for their campaign material, maybe whilst they’re having these snaps they could ask the UK Government to follow the Welsh Labour Government’s lead.

Since 2011 in Wales, there’s also a limit on the amount older people in care have to pay for the care they require and, in turn, sure, there is a consistent approach to charging across Wales—initiatives that are indeed not in place elsewhere in the UK. So, why, might you ask, are the Welsh Government phasing in this capital limit? The answer is that this is a Welsh Labour Government that listens before enacting legislation. Local authorities and care home providers have fed back into these proposals and the phasing in allows them sufficient time to adapt to the changes. It also takes into account independent research commissioned by the Welsh Labour Government to obtain up-to-date costings for implementing the changes. From April also a full disregard of the war disablement pension will also be introduced in all local authority financial assessments for charging for social care. This change will ensure our armed forces veterans in receipt of these important pensions will not be required to use them to pay for the cost of their care.

The record of the Welsh Labour Government in valuing the contribution that older people make to our communities, public services and economy is one that we in Wales can be rightly proud of. Thanks to Welsh Labour’s leadership, Wales also becomes the first country in the world to adopt a declaration of the rights of older people, which sets out clearly the rights of older people in Wales. This declaration is another world-leading step for Wales in the drive for equality and human rights.

Indeed, my constituents regularly have expressed their satisfaction to me, in constituency, with the Welsh Labour Government’s policy on concessionary affairs. [Interruption.] I’m sorry, I don’t have time. There are more than 72,000 concessionary pass holders in Wales, including armed forces personnel and veterans. The Welsh Labour Government is rightly continuing its support for this popular concessionary travel scheme for older people as part of its continuing support for universal benefits.

We know, as has been said, that an ageing population will rightly challenge all of us—Government policy makers and the wider populace. We’ve heard that currently—heard from other Members in the debate—that one in five over 80 have dementia, but in the next five years, the number of people in Wales with dementia is set to increase by almost a third. The Welsh Labour Government is well placed to deal with the challenges that lie ahead and we shall leave nobody behind. It is the mark of how progressive a nation or country is in how we do treat those who have given so much to their country throughout their lifetimes.

When it comes to legislating, the Welsh Labour Government supports the principle of an older people’s Bill, as outlined by the Older People’s Commissioner for Wales. Indeed, discussions about potential further legislation and future legislation have taken place with the older people’s commissioner in order to examine how rights for older people can be strengthened. That is why, today, I shall be voting against the Tory motion and supporting the older people of Wales. Diolch, Lywydd.

I call on the Minister for Social Services and Public Health, Rebecca Evans.

Thank you. The Welsh Government recognises and values the contribution that older people across Wales have made and continue to make within our communities. I’m proud that we’ve led the way with our groundbreaking strategy for older people. First launched in 2003, it’s been recognised by the Institute for Public Policy Research as the most coherent long-term commitment to improving the position of older people in the UK. We broke new ground again in 2008, when we became the first country to appoint a commissioner for older people. The commissioner acts as an independent champion and voice for older people right across the nation.

Across Government, we’re continuing our long-standing commitment to improving the lives of older people in Wales and I outlined a number of these actions in my written statement to mark the International Day of Older Persons in October. In July 2014, we issued the declaration of rights for older people in Wales. The declaration outlines what’s expected of public services to ensure that older people receive the support they need whilst ensuring their dignity and rights are protected.

The Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014 came into force in April this year, with the rights of older people embedded within it. The Act gives people a stronger voice and control over the support that they need. It also focuses on early intervention and prevention to support people to maintain their independence and achieve the well-being outcomes that are important to them. We’re committed to ensuring that older people have good quality care and are treated with dignity and respect. We’re taking action to respond to the review undertaken by Dr Margaret Flynn and have appointed a senior quality improvement expert to take forward work, particularly in relation to pressure sores. For these reasons and more, we welcome and support parts 1 and 2 of today’s motion.

Turning to point 3 of the motion, however, the UK Government’s decision to delay its reform of the paying-for-care arrangements until at least 2020 has had serious consequences for Wales. It’s resulted in us not receiving consequential funding to support substantive reform of our paying-for-care arrangements. Nevertheless, this has not deterred us from pressing ahead with the reform that is within our existing powers and our available resources. A key commitment in our ‘Taking Wales Forward’ programme is to more than double the capital limit that people in residential care can retain from £24,000 to £50,000, and people will benefit from the first stage of the increase to £30,000 from April of next year. At the same time, we’ll keep our promise of the full disregard of the war disablement pension when paying for care.

The Welsh Government has, of course, already considered the findings of the older persons’ commissioner’s report on dementia, and we support this part of the motion. ‘Taking Wales Forward’ sets out our commitment to take further action to make Wales a dementia-friendly nation by developing and implementing a new national dementia strategic plan. The Welsh Government has also provided more than £8 million of additional funding over the last two years to develop dementia services across Wales.

Our third sector partners have a key role in the development of a new dementia strategy for Wales and the Alzheimer’s Society has been closely involved in the stakeholder engagement work, and this will inform the final version of the strategic plan. The plan will build on the existing good work and will include awareness raising, working with the Alzheimer’s Society and others to maintain the momentum of the dementia friends and dementia-supportive communities campaigns. It will also focus on improving diagnosis rates, providing practical and emotional help, and embedding a culture that puts the dignity and safety of patients first.

Turning to the final point of the motion, we want Wales to be a fair society and will continue our work with all protected groups to counter discrimination. I referred earlier to the declaration of rights for older people that we issued. And, as well as the rights embedded within the social services and well-being Act, in terms of potential future legislation, I can confirm that the First Minister has already had initial discussions with the older people’s commissioner in relation to strengthening the rights of older people, and supports the principle of a Bill. I’ve also had initial discussions and I look forward to meeting with the commissioner again later this month to discuss her legislative proposals in more detail.

I’m pleased to outline our support for all of Plaid Cymru’s amendments to the motion. The Welsh Government established the post of the older people’s commissioner to ensure that the voices of older people are heard. We welcome the commissioner’s continued engagement with public services boards and the fact that she’s already published guidance, which should provide public services boards with useful and practical recommendations to help ensure that older people’s needs are not overlooked when preparing the local well-being plans.

We have an ambitious programme for government target of an additional 20,000 affordable homes, and this lies at the heart of our comprehensive housing agenda, supporting key themes across other portfolios, including improving well-being in our communities—

Minister, will you take an intervention?

Thank you for taking the intervention. Monmouthshire County Council has set up a number of dementia-friendly communities, which have worked because the views of older people have been taken into account at the very outset so that, when they’re being supported, that support is tailored to what they need and what they say they need. So, I welcome your talk of placing their rights on a statutory level. Would you endeavour to make sure that, in that statutory framework, the views of older people are paramount and that they are not overridden or able to be overridden by people who think they know best, but actually don’t know better than the people receiving the care and support?

Well, I think it’s always important to speak directly to people affected by conditions or with certain protected characteristics themselves—so, talking directly to them, as well as to the groups and organisations who represent them. So, I would hope that older people would be involved in, certainly, the production of the local plans through the work of regional partnership boards, driving forward the implementation of the social services and well-being Act in Wales as well.

But, returning to housing, the 20,000 homes will cover a range of tenures, including social rented and homes for older people. During the last term of Government, good progress was made in joint working on housing and health and social care matters, including the work taken forward through our intermediate care fund. We’ve provided over £180 million in social housing grant funding to provide extra-care schemes across Wales. Together, these initiatives are transforming the way that older people are supported to live fulfilling, independent and safe lives, and I want us to build on this success.

The Welsh Government provides funding to support the work of the older people’s commissioner, and one of the issues the commissioner works on relates to older people being targeted through financial scams. Whilst good practice exists across Wales to tackle scams in all their forms, Welsh Government, the commissioner, and others recognised that there was a need to better co-ordinate efforts and ensure that there’s a collaborative approach across the public, private and third sectors. As a result, the commissioner and Age Cymru formally launched the Wales Against Scams Partnership in March of this year, which works to make Wales a hostile place for criminals who often deliberately target older and vulnerable people. The partnership has also developed the UK’s first anti-scammers charter. Phase 2 of our Ageing Well in Wales programme is also addressing the concerns related to scams.

So, in Wales, we’ve already done a great deal to recognise and address the issues that matter to older people. We’ll be reviewing our older people strategy over the coming months and we’ll focus on some key priority areas for delivery, and I think today’s debate has been really helpful in highlighting and exploring some of those key concerns. I’m committed to ensuring the well-being of older people and I’ll work with the older people’s commissioner and other stakeholders to ensure that Wales is a great place to grow old and age well.

I call on Suzy Davies to reply to the debate.

Diolch, Lywydd. Thank you to everyone who’s taken part in the debate today. Perhaps I can offer my thanks also to the older people’s commissioner to be recorded as well. Personally, I’m still a little bit baffled by the thought that policy makers consider me to be an older person, and I face the temptation that perhaps we should ask for that threshold to be moved a little further north, but, on the other hand, it is a reminder that even though we live longer—as we are living longer, I should say—we should start thinking about how we plan for those days when perhaps we will be frailer, when perhaps we might be ill and perhaps when we might develop dementia—effectively, to start planning now to live well later, as Mohammad Asghar suggested. All family cultures are different, and our own plans will be different. However, whatever the plans we do adopt that work in our own families, they do need to be supported by a delivered strategy, and I thought Lynne Neagle’s contribution on this particular point was very powerful.

I think the threshold of 50, being 50, also reminds us that, if we demand dignity, respect, independence and freedom to make decisions about our lives in our 50s, then why should it be any different when we’re much older? I hope that everyone will have heard Mark Isherwood’s points, particularly on independent living. I’m pleased, therefore, that nobody has sought to amend or delete the first two points of the motion.

Turning, for a moment, to the deletions proposed in the amendments, we will not support amendment 1, which deletes the third point of our motion. I’m sorry, Rhianon Passmore, but we have no reason to support a threshold that is less generous than our own Welsh Conservatives’s devolved offer. Amendment 3, deleting our point 5, is less benign than it might seem. It differs from our original motion in just one particular, namely the Welsh Government’s deletion of our commitment to place a duty on public sector bodies to consult older people when making decisions that affect their lives. I don’t see what’s wrong with having that obligation. It matters so much in planning and housing, as David Melding mentioned. I’ve asked for a similar duty of due regard to be considered for the UNCRC for some time now, and, yet again, silence from Welsh Government. Well, we disagree with you. We won’t support your silence.

Amendments 4 and 5—we have no difficulty with the content; I just don’t think they required the deletions of our points 5(a) and 5(b). If Plaid is serious in saying that it supports the work of the older people’s commissioner, then why aren’t you supporting her suggestions for a Bill? She’s the one who came up with this idea.

Amendment 2 is irrelevant to this debate, which is about Wales, but we will support the last two amendments should we have the opportunity to do so.

Janet Finch-Saunders set the scene very well for us, I think, and explained that there are steps, actually quite simple steps sometimes, that can be taken that don’t cost anything at all, Rhun ap Iorwerth, to avoid the loss of dignity and control experienced by people in hospital, for example. She’s right that older people spend too long in hospital sometimes, and I wish the Welsh Government well with its parliamentary review of health and social services. The Cabinet Secretary knows my concerns about maintaining the status of social care and prevention in whichever models emerge from that, but any model will fail if it ignores the points made by David Melding regarding older carers, and if it ignores the points raised by Gareth Bennett about failing to recognise loneliness, because obviously the health impacts of loneliness at a population level can be really very, very significant.

Rhun ap Iorwerth mentioned the economic contribution, briefly, of older people, but also the social contribution. If Wales is moving closer to a co-productive society then older people will be at the heart of meeting the challenges, not only in their own lives, but in those of others as well—another point raised by David Melding, particularly pertinent in families—Lynne Neagle mentioned this—where a family member may have dementia. All members of this Chamber, and, I hope, members of the Government, too, will consider having dementia-friend training themselves, too. Because let it not just be Torfaen. Let us have Wales as a dementia-friendly Government, with the lead taken from this place.

A right to an early diagnosis and other issues raised by Mark Isherwood could of course be encapsulated in a Bill. Minister, I’ve absolutely no doubt that the Welsh Government values and wishes to support older people, and we acknowledge the steps that you’ve taken, but sometimes good intentions, including declarations, do need underpinning by legislation. Thank you.

The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] I will defer voting under this item until voting time.

Voting deferred until voting time.