6. What discussions has the Welsh Government had with rail authorities about delays to services caused by compacted leaves on the line? OAQ(5)0305(FM)

Well, this isn’t, of course, a devolved issue, but underperformance by Network Rail in providing quality public services is not acceptable. We will continue to call for the devolution of rail powers so we can have greater accountability for railway services provided in Wales.

Thanks for that, First Minister. Yes, I’m aware it’s a problem that is essentially dealt with by Network Rail. Are there regular channels of communication between the Welsh Government and Network Rail?

Yes, there are. I’ve met with Network Rail, but the more regular channel of communication will be between officials and Network Rail. It is not acceptable that services should be curtailed in this way. The problem is that, if there are compacted leaves on the line—and it’s an old joke, but the reality is, what happens is, if a train skids, it can actually damage the wheels to the extent that the wheels have to be re-ground. So actually it takes the entire locomotive out of action and, potentially, carriages as well, because of that effect.

I would not want to think that Network Rail are not spending as much money as they should be doing on trackside maintenance, thus causing more leaves to fall. That is something that we will need to talk to Network Rail about in order to rule out that possibility.

The First Minister will be aware of comments by the UK transport Secretary a few weeks ago that pressing for the electrification of the rail line from Cardiff to Swansea was jumping the gun and, most recently, comments by the chair of Network Rail that it was not a done deal. He’ll appreciate that my constituents in Neath and, I dare say, those of colleagues west of Cardiff will hear that as a rowing back on previous commitments by the UK Government. I wonder if you can outline what steps the Welsh Government can take to press the UK Government to hold its commitments.

Well, these are promises that were given, that there would be electrification. Originally, of course, the promise was electrification as far as Cardiff, and then from Bridgend to Swansea; I wondered what I’d done to the UK Government that there should be a gap between my constituency and Cardiff. In reality, it was because they failed to realise there are actually two railway lines between the two settlements. That promise was given, and I expect that promise to be kept. On top of that, it is quite clear that Cardiff Central railway station needs a significant revamp in order for it to be fit for the future, and I expect to see—I would want to see—the UK Government making the right level of contribution to Network Rail’s plans for that station as well. It is not good enough, on the one hand, to say the railways cannot be devolved, and on the other hand not spend enough money on Welsh railways. The UK Government cannot have it both ways.

Naturally, I would support the comments of Jeremy Miles on the dire need to electrify the main line to Swansea. Some of us have been making that case for a decade and more. But the original question here is on leaves on the line. Naturally, autumn comes round every year and the leaves fall annually. I understand the point that this system is not devolved, but I don’t know if anyone’s told the leaves that. But I think there is scope here to innovate in negotiations in order to ensure that we come up with solutions that eradicate this problem once and for all.

Well, that’s perfectly true, of course, but the important point is that Network Rail ensures that sufficient work is undertaken in order to ensure that trees are cut back in order to stop the leaves falling on the line in the first place. Because at present, what is not clear is whether they are doing enough to ensure that the problem is reduced, bearing in mind that we do know that the leaves fall each year in this country—from the majority of trees.

I contacted Arriva Trains Wales after disruption to services on the Wrexham-to-Bidston line at the end of October caused by leaf fall and weather conditions. They replied that they’d been trying to overcome the issue for a number of years, and were working in partnership with colleagues on the line to try and reduce the effect on their customers. They produced a paper in March of this year, supported by local user groups and bodies on the line, but unfortunately it wasn’t supported by the Welsh Government. Why was that, First Minister?

That’s not correct. What he is suggesting—well, he points out, actually, that there’s a weakness in the system; that is, that the rail track operator and owner is divorced from the actual train company, but that is a system his own party put in place. It would be a far better system, to my mind, where the train operating company and the rail track operator and owner were one and the same body, so one can’t blame the other if there are any disruptions to services. But that is a system his party put in place and want to preserve.