2. Is it Welsh Government policy to support a local authority-led pilot of a universal basic income? OAQ(5)0072(FLG)

Thank you for the question. No local authority in Wales has yet contacted the Welsh Government seeking support for a basic income pilot. Nevertheless I intend to monitor the progress of the feasibility work currently being carried out in Fife and Glasgow. While there are clear competence questions to be addressed here, universal basic income has the potential to make a significant contribution to addressing poverty and inequality.

I welcome the Cabinet Secretary’s comments. He’s referred, of course, to the pilot in Scotland. There is widespread support, I believe, for this concept now across the political spectrum and, yes, on the left—we recall that it was Milton Friedman who was one of the early advocates of this concept, and Richard Nixon actually staged the first ever pilot scheme. If local government did want to experiment in this area, shouldn’t we take this opportunity to look at how this exceptionally innovative concept can contribute towards the well-being of our people in the future?

Thank you for the question.

Rwy’n awyddus iawn i gadw mewn cysylltiad â’r gwaith dichonoldeb sy’n mynd rhagddo yn Fife a Glasgow. Credaf ei bod yn bwysig bod yn realistig ynglŷn â’r hyn y maent wedi cychwyn ei wneud. Maent yn gobeithio trefnu astudiaeth ddichonoldeb dros y misoedd nesaf. Byddai’r astudiaeth ddichonoldeb honno yn casglu tystiolaeth, a phe bai’r dystiolaeth honno’n ddigon cryf, byddent yn sefydlu rhaglen beilot. Ond er hynny, mae hwnnw’n gam ymlaen yng nghyd-destun y DU. Mae hanes o lwyddiant gan incwm sylfaenol mewn rhannau eraill o’r byd eisoes. Talwyd incwm sylfaenol i ddinasyddion yn Alaska ers 1982 o gronfa ddifidend barhaol Alaska. Ac er ei fod yn waith sydd, yn yr Alban, wedi cael cefnogaeth yr SNP—yn Glasgow, caiff ei arwain gan gynghorydd Llafur, yn Fife, fe’i cefnogwyd gan arweinydd y grŵp Ceidwadol ar y cyngor yno—er hynny, pe baem yn parhau ag ef, byddai’n rhaid i ni fod yn barod i wynebu penawdau o’r math a ddefnyddiwyd gan bapur newydd ‘The Sun’ wrth adrodd ar arbrawf Glasgow, gan ddweud ei fod yn talu cyflog am ddim gwaith, hyd yn oed i bobl â swyddi. Felly, mae’r syniad, er ei fod yn ddeniadol o ran y ffordd y gallai symleiddio a chynorthwyo pobl sy’n gorfod dibynnu ar hyn o bryd ar gyfuniad cymhleth iawn o waith rhan-amser, budd-daliadau rhan-amser ac yn y blaen—bydd yn her i’r byd gwleidyddol argyhoeddi’r cyhoedd ynglŷn â rhinweddau’r cynllun.

The Sun’ newspaper will do what ‘The Sun’ newspaper does, if it merits the actual phrase of ‘newspaper’ being put after it. But, could I welcome both the question that’s been put and the positive way in which the Minister has responded? And, whilst some would argue from the right and the left, who are supporters of this approach for different reasons, that you cannot actually pilot it but you need to just do it, I would draw his attention to some interesting work that was done in 2013 in central London, where the equivalent of a minimum universal income was given to 13 homeless individuals, without conditions, with no conditionality, in the hope that something positive would happen. And, of course, the sceptics said ‘Well, that’ll be squandered and wasted.’ A year later, 11 of those were not only in homes, with accommodation, but many of them were actually in work as well. Now, I think this is an interesting area for us to explore, for us to examine, and potentially in future, as we see it evolve in other areas, for us to look at in Wales as well in one form or another. So I welcome the open-minded response that the Cabinet Secretary has indicated.

I thank Huw Irranca-Davies for that contribution. It’s very interesting, the example that he points to. Of course, Finland began a pilot of universal basic income on 1 January this year, which is very much focused on the sort of population to which he referred. That’s a major trial involving 2,000 randomly selected people who are currently unemployed, to see what an unconditional basic income might do in their lives.

The idea is not a new one, Llywydd. A long time ago, in the 1970s and 1980s, I spent my time interviewing a group of people who had marched around the streets during the 1930s, demanding what they called ‘the social dividend’, and what was in fact a simple, basic income scheme. So, it’s an idea with considerable roots in our social policy—always struggled to manage to find a practical way of taking it forward. But it is an opportunity for us in Wales to watch what is being attempted elsewhere and to see whether we could do anything practical with the idea ourselves.