The next item on our agenda this afternoon is a statement by the Chair of the Children, Young People and Education committee and I call on the committee Chair, Lynne Neagle.

Thank you, Llywydd. I welcome this opportunity to update Members on the work of the Children, Young People and Education Committee. As Chair of the committee, I am delighted by the progress made in scrutinising key areas of policy and legislation over such a short period of time.

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.

Over the summer, we consulted on what our committee’s priorities should be. I was pleased to see diverse and detailed submissions from nearly 90 organisations and individuals from across Wales. This led to the committee embarking on two inquiries that stakeholders had identified: statutory advocacy services for children and young people and educational outcomes for Gypsy/Traveller and minority ethnic learners. We have finished taking evidence on both of these subjects and will be reporting soon.

Looking further ahead and more strategically, our committee, in the process of its planning, set out principles and ambitions for our work over the fifth term of this Assembly. Underpinning everything will be the involvement of children and young people. Through our work we will ensure the views and experiences of children and young people are captured in a useful, sensitive and constructive way.

In our snapshot inquiry into youth services in Wales, more than 1,500 people gave us their views on the services they use. Their input formed an essential part of our findings and recommendations, which were published in December. The feedback from young people was incredibly clear: when youth work provision disappears from a young person’s life, the impact is considerable. These services are often a catalyst to help them develop skills and confidence and make better choices in their lives.

It continues to be essential for us to work with stakeholder organisations, carers, teachers and parents. I am wholly committed to ensuring we are an outward-facing and engaging committee. During our Stage 1 scrutiny of the additional learning needs Bill, our Members will be hosting events with parents and carers in north and south Wales.

I am also pleased to inform Members there will be a series of workshops taking place for young people with additional learning needs. This will be an important part of our work scrutinising the ALN Bill and I look forward to seeing the views of young people guiding our work. We will also be holding a conference for practitioners and stakeholders working with children and young people to tell us their views on the Bill.

It would be remiss of me not to thank TSANA and SNAP Cymru for their fantastic partnership working with our committee over the past few months. This partnership has allowed us to meaningfully engage with those who will be directly affected by the legislation.

Our partnership work and outward-facing approach through the course of this legislative scrutiny will ensure service users’ needs are at the heart of our work and scrutiny of the ALN Bill will form the substantive part of our work until the end of spring.

Llywydd, the committee members and I are committed to undertaking work that will make a substantial contribution to improving the lives of children and young people in Wales.

In one of our current consultations, we are examining the importance of the first 1,000 days of a child’s life from pregnancy through to the second birthday. This formative time is a critical part of a child’s upbringing and sets the stage for intellectual development and lifelong health.

The Committee will consider the extent to which Welsh Government policies and programmes support the early parent role in the first 1,000 days and, crucially, how effective these are in supporting children’s long term emotional and social capabilities and development. This important inquiry will, I hope, set the stage for a major national conversation about how we can really set our future citizens up for happy and healthy lives.

The committee is seeking input from teachers and other education professionals for our inquiry into teachers’ professional learning and education. The Welsh Government is reforming the way new teachers are trained before they qualify and also their ongoing professional development throughout their careers.

These professionals are sometimes locked into inflexible schedules and due to capacity and planning issues often cannot get the time to further themselves professionally. This cannot continue given the ongoing changes to the Welsh education system, so we will be looking specifically at arrangements for continuing professional development for the current workforce; the role of initial teacher education; and the sufficiency of the future education workforce. As part of our consultation, we will be working with the Public Accounts Committee to jointly engage with the teaching profession as part of their work into consortia.

Members will be pleased to hear that our committee will not just be undertaking a series of fixed pieces of work, but also ensuring that ongoing scrutiny of developing areas of policy takes place. To that end, we are continuing—[Interruption.]—sorry; it’s a very bad time to develop a cough. To that end, we are continuing to closely examine the implementation of both the Donaldson and Diamond reviews. This will play a crucial role in delivering success of the important reforms being put forward. Linked to our ongoing scrutiny of curriculum reforms, we will be examining more closely Wales’s performance in PISA and examining exactly how curriculum reforms will impact on our international standing.

Child health will play a big part in our work over the coming years. I very much look forward to working with organisations like the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health and welcoming the Welsh Government’s chief medical officer to the committee in March to outline his vision for improving child health.

Members of the committee are incredibly passionate about the quality and provision of mental health services for young people. The committee has already undertaken scrutiny of the Cabinet Secretary for Health, Well-being and Sport, and I am sure that he is aware that we will be continuing to focus on this vital area. The committee will continue to examine the support available to young people in crisis, and in particular delays in accessing child and adolescent mental health services, as well as the support available to children and young people who do not reach the threshold for specialist services.

The youth parliament initiative being led by the Llywydd is a genuinely exciting moment in the history of the Assembly. Not only is it one that should create meaningful and long-lasting ties between schools, young people and the Assembly, but it is a true recognition of the value children and young people have in our democracy. I want to offer our committee’s full and unwavering support to the establishment of the youth parliament, and I look forward to us playing a full role in getting it off the ground.

In closing my statement today, Llywydd, I would like to thank the young people, carers, parents and experts who have readily contributed to our broad remit of work since the establishment of the committee. I hope that, over the fifth term of this Assembly, the Children, Young People and Education Committee will be a real conduit for the voices of young people to shape policy and legislation in Wales.

Thank you to the Chair of the committee for her statement. Can I put on record what an effective Chair she has been during her tenure so far, as Chair of that committee—bringing the committee together, enabling us to work in a way where there is consensus around the table so that we can maximise our impact? I want to pay tribute to you, Lynne, for your work and your commitment and dedication to the task.

As the Chair has already said, there’s been a great deal of discussion and debate around the table as to where the emphasis of the committee’s work ought to be. Very early on in those discussions, we determined, as a committee, that we would continue to pick up on those issues that were legacy issues from former committees. I think it’s really important that all committees in the Assembly get smarter about following up on recommendations and work that they’ve done in the past. The Chair has touched on a number of these, including our follow-up work on Donaldson, and there are others, of course, on children and adolescent mental health services, neonatal care and a whole range of issues that have been the subjects of pieces of work in the past. I’m very pleased that the Chair has put on record her determination to make sure that those are continuously back on the agenda of the committee, so that we can hold the Government and other stakeholders to account for their delivery and promises on those issues.

I was very pleased that one of the first pieces of work that the committee has done has been on this whole issue of advocacy for children and young people. We know that there’s been some inertia in recent years in trying to get to grips with this problem and to have a proper fully functioning service across Wales for children and young people that is equitable in terms of access, and I’m very pleased that, even though that report is yet to be published, it’s already had an impact in encouraging the Government, and local government as well, to get together and move things forward significantly. And I know, in terms of the work that we’re doing on Gypsy/Traveller and ethnic minority grants in education, that that work also is drawing attention to something that has not received a lot of attention, frankly, in recent years, and it’s important to shine a light on these particular issues.

I have to say, I’ve been disappointed with the engagement, sometimes, of the Welsh Government with some of our inquiries. We’ve done a really excellent piece of work, I think, on youth services and youth work around Wales. And it has been disappointing that the Welsh Government has, perhaps, been making decisions before the outcome of our work has been published—sometimes rash decisions, which it’s then had to row back from. And I think that there’s a lesson there for the Welsh Government.

We have a role to play as parliamentarians in the Assembly, helping to contribute to shape the work that the Government does, and I think we’ve got a very useful contribution to make. So, that has been a little bit disappointing, and I was very pleased that the Chair has reflected very well the strong feelings of the committee when things have gone awry, to bring things back on track, in terms of that very important relationship.

I think it is important also to note the commitment that the Chair has given today to working very closely and carefully with children and young people, to make sure that their voices are heard regularly in the committee’s programme of work. We did undertake some outreach work as part of our youth services inquiry, but, of course, the Additional Learning Needs and Education Tribunal (Wales) Bill provides us with further opportunities to do just that. And the Chair is quite right to raise the fact that, when the National Assembly has a youth parliament for Wales, which it is able to work collaboratively with, that gives us another forum, which can be usefully used to ensure that children and young people’s views are brought into our work.

So, I haven’t got a series of questions for the Chair, I’m afraid, other than to say, ‘Keep up the excellent work.’ I’m very pleased with the start that’s been made, and you’ve certainly got my party’s commitment to work collaboratively with you, and other members of the committee, to ensure that we do an effective job.

I don’t know what to say, other than ‘thank you’. [Laughter.] Thank you, Darren, for those kind words. Can I just say that I am very, very keen for the committee to work together as a team? We had an excellent strategic planning day, and it was very apparent that we all genuinely want to make a difference to the lives of children and young people, and I hope that we will be able to carry on in the vein that we’ve started in, and do that. Am I meant to respond to the other points?

If you want to. But, as the Member said there were no questions, it’s entirely up to you.

Okay, thank you.

Well, can I thank you for your statement, and align myself wholeheartedly with the comments made earlier about your role in fulfilling your capacity as Chair? And I agree wholeheartedly with the contents of your statement. But I offer a few comments—and questions—not maybe on a particular inquiry, but certainly on a thematic level.

Now, I’m particularly keen for the committee to examine the opportunities for the Welsh Government to transition more decisively to a preventative approach to its work, in terms of investment and policy, across, of course, the breadth of policies relating to the committee. Now, the Welsh Government, in fairness, is increasingly talking about that, moving in that direction, and especially the Cabinet Secretary for Communities and Children here, who, in fairness, has been quite keen on this, to say the least, and I welcome that. But do you agree with me that more could be done to implement and accelerate a move in that direction, and what do you believe the committee can contribute, to encourage the Government to move, increasingly, in that direction?

Now, another key area of course, I believe, is to contribute to achieving greater parity of esteem between vocational and academic education and qualifications. And I hope that this can be one of the big legacies of this Assembly, certainly in terms of a longer-term approach, and certainly it’s one we should be approaching, in my view—or pursuing, I should say—as a committee. And I’d be interested in hearing your views about how you think we can most effectively try and do that.

Thirdly, on a less positive note, in relation to our inquiry on youth work, and we’ve already heard reference to it—and I would declare an interest as one of the honorary presidents of the Council for Wales of Voluntary Youth Services—could I ask whether you do share my disappointment, having written to the Minister for Lifelong Learning and Welsh Language three separate occasions, that we’re still waiting for answers to six pretty direct, pretty straightforward questions about the way the decision was made around the funding of CWVYS? The first letter was sent in early November, a subsequent letter in December. We’ve been forced again to write this month, and, of course, we’re still waiting for answers. If the committee is to fulfil its role in scrutinising the Welsh Government, in holding Ministers to account, then such evasive responses, which make no effort in fact to answer the questions that we’ve asked, from the Minister, not only obstructs our work but is, in my view, wholly unacceptable. So, do you share my disappointment in that respect? And, secondly, what course of action do you propose the committee should take if, at the third time of asking, we still don’t get answers to our questions?

Finally, I hope the committee can reflect through our work the core principles of youth work, in terms of offering young people empowering, educative, expressive, inclusive and participative experiences. And you referred to the very meaningful engagement with young people that clearly will be—has been, and will continue to be—a central feature of our work. But I’m just wondering whether we can take that further. Could we, for example, delegate the choice of a future inquiry to young people? Could we develop opportunities for young people to shadow committee members in some way? Should there be a young people’s vision of the Children, Young People and Education Committee, maybe as part of the proposed young people’s assembly, so that we can truly maximise the involvement of children and young people in our deliberations as a committee over the months and years to come?

Can I thank Llyr for his kind comments to me, and thank him, too, for his questions, which I will do my best to answer? I completely agree in relation to prevention. We know that it’s absolutely key in all sorts of areas, and it’s something that we always need to be trying to do more of. I think that is one of the reasons why our inquiry into the first 1,000 days will be so important, because we know that that first two years of a child’s life is absolutely critical, and I hope that we can add value to the work that the Government is doing on this to try and really make that a time when we can focus on prevention.

The other area, of course, is child and adolescent mental health services. We know that there are lots of children and young people who are being referred into specialist CAMHS who don’t perhaps need specialist CAMHS, who should be getting support in the school system, through youth services. And I think that the work that we are doing in scrutinising the Together for Children and Young People will hopefully help drive that work forward in schools, in youth centres, and with counsellors, and make an important contribution to that.

I agree with you about the importance of parity of esteem between vocational and education. It’s not an area that, as you know, we’ve spent a lot of time on so far, only in consideration of things like Diamond, where the committee was able to welcome the emphasis that Professor Diamond put on funding students in vocational training as well. And I hope that we will be able to continue that. I would like to see it being a thread in lots of our inquiries, and you’ll know that in our early scrutiny of the additional learning needs Bill, one of the issues that is coming up regularly is to ask why the Bill doesn’t cover things like apprenticeships. And I think we need to keep doing that, really, to mainstream into all our work.

In relation to the points you’ve raised about the Minister for Lifelong Learning and the Welsh Language and CWVYS, obviously I shared the committee’s concerns about the way that the dialogue with CWVYS was handled. I was very clear about that at the time, and I was very keen to pursue those concerns with the Minister. Clearly, it would have been better if we’d had straight answers from the very beginning. I think it is very important that Ministers engage as openly as possible with committees. I know that the Minister has received our most recent letter, and I really hope that we will now get a definitive answer and be able to move on, really, to consider what is a huge issue, which is the whole future of youth services in Wales.

And then, finally, your points on young people and their involvement, I think, are really important. I know that the culture and media committee did an exercise in public engagement, asking people to choose an inquiry, and I would certainly be very enthusiastic about doing that with young people. I’m also very, very keen, really, to look at any innovative things that we can try, such as shadowing opportunities or maybe even having a shadowing committee. I’d like to see us having young people in here and involving them. Anything that I think encourages young people to get involved is going to be vitally important, especially with the challenges that we face going forward.

If I could just ask you two questions relating to your statement: you refer to the committee inquiry into the educational outcomes for Gypsy/Traveller and minority ethnic learners. I wonder if you could tell me, did you take evidence from John Summers High School in Flintshire, which has played a great and leading role in engaging with the local Gypsy/Traveller community and improving educational outcomes for young people? The community and the school have expressed concerns that that has not been factored into decisions over the school closure, which could adversely impact the connection with the community that’s been achieved.

Secondly and finally, you referred to the scrutiny that will carry on with the additional learning needs Bill. You referred to children, quite rightly, being involved, and stakeholders and practitioners. You don’t mention parents. Can you confirm that parents will be involved so that you can share their practical experience of concern that this might lead, on the basis of experience to date, to rationing, if not handled properly, where the move away from statements to school action and school action plus, has, in some cases, led to a greater number of exclusions, particularly amongst children on the autistic spectrum and otherwise, and has often frustrated access to services?

Can I thank Mark Isherwood for those questions? As far as I’m aware, we didn’t receive any evidence from the John Summers school because our inquiry was specifically around the decision of the Welsh Government to amalgamate the funds that were given to support Gypsy/Traveller learning and minority ethnic learning into one big grant, called the education improvement grant. It’s been a fairly short inquiry and we’re due to report soon. I will check with the committee service whether we may have received something in writing, but I don’t believe that we did. It was a very focused inquiry.

Thank you for your points about the ALN Bill. My statement did in fact refer to consultation with parents. We’ve got events with parents in north and south Wales and there is a written consultation as well, which will also be an opportunity for parents. Of course, parents are very actively involved in some of the organisations that are giving evidence.

You’ve made the point, I know, previously about the possible dilution of support by moving to a system where everybody has an individual learning plan and that is something that we are examining. In every meeting, really, in this scrutiny so far, it’s come up, and I think I can say that everybody wants this Bill to work. There’s really unprecedented cross-party support for getting something that works for children and young people and their families. And I’m sure that the Government is very, very keen to get something that works. I can certainly give the commitment that we will all be scrutinising that very closely. This is about improving things for children and young people and not by any means rationing or making things in any way worse.

Thank you very much for persevering through that with your voice. I’m sure that the committee will go on and you’ll come back to us with more statements. So, thank you very much for that.