The next item on the agenda is the statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Education on the Hazelkorn review of Welsh education. I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Education, Kirsty Williams.

Thank you, Presiding Officer. Today I’m announcing the Welsh Government’s response to Professor Ellen Hazelkorn’s report ‘Towards 2030—A Framework for Building a World-class Post-Compulsory Education System for Wales’, which was published on 10 March 2016.

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.

I would like to express my appreciation for Professor Hazelkorn’s work, alongside the many stakeholders, in reviewing the current arrangements and drawing on her extensive international experience. Indeed, in her most recent co-authored book, ‘The Civic University’, she has argued that pursing a civic mission must be a way of both organising higher education and the value of institutions in partnership, committing to improving the lives of communities and nations. I have previously set a challenge to Welsh higher education to recapture its sense of civic mission following the Brexit vote. But I also recognise that the wider framework for our post-compulsory education system itself needs clarity, both in terms of its sense of purpose and how we ensure high-quality options and outcomes for our citizens.

The previous administration commissioned the review because of concerns about the growing complexity of the post-compulsory education and training system. This includes further education, higher education, work-based learning and adult community education. The various sectors and providers are regulated and funded in different ways by different bodies and the result can be unhelpful competition between education and training providers, duplication or gaps in provision and confusion for learners. New types of providers have entered the system in recent years and a significant number of HE courses are now taught in FE institutions. Boundaries between higher education and further education, which once were clear, are now breaking down.

I am conscious of significant changes in the approach to post-compulsory education and training in other parts of the United Kingdom. These will have a knock-on effect on Wales and we need to ensure that our system is fit for purpose and benefits learners of all ages, employers and communities. Working lives are now longer, and they change rapidly, and we need a system that makes it easier for people to learn and acquire skills throughout their careers. Our lives and economy are undergoing huge technological change. We know that the skills requirements of our economy are constantly changing and, of course, we must respond to the impact of Brexit. Doing nothing, or maintaining the status quo, is not a viable option.

Professor Hazelkorn concluded that the current system does not focus sufficiently on learners and nor does it fully achieve value for money. Her report emphasised the need for post-compulsory education and training to operate as a single sector. It also proposed how the post-compulsory sector should be regulated and monitored to ensure sustainability, coherence and effectiveness into the future. Her recommendations included: developing an overarching vision, based on stronger links between education policy, providers and provision and social and economic goals; establishing a single regulatory, oversight and co-ordinating authority for the post-compulsory sector—this would be responsible for funding provision at all levels, monitoring governance practice, ensuring quality and be the lead funder of research; placing the needs of learners at the heart of the education system by establishing a clear and flexible learning and career pathway; and there should be parity of esteem between vocational and academic pathways and connections between qualifications and the labour market, and they have to be improved.

Over the past few months, I have given these proposals careful consideration, alongside ministerial colleagues. As set out in my agreement with the First Minister, we want to promote and enhance both academic and vocational routes into and through further and higher education, ensuring that we widen access so that learners benefit throughout their lives. Raising standards in schools is crucial, but we also know that lifelong learning, part-time learning and work-based learning is essential to social mobility and national prosperity.

I recognise that the model proposed by Professor Hazelkorn builds on what is tried and tested in successful systems such as the ones in Ontario and New Zealand, and I want Wales to enjoy those same advantages. Therefore, Deputy Presiding Officer, I plan to consult, later on this year, on proposals for establishing a single strategic authority, responsible for overseeing all aspects of post-compulsory education and training. It is critical that we hear from learners, leaders and practitioners on how post-compulsory education and training meets their needs and can be an even greater force for the social mobility and national prosperity I mentioned earlier.

It is intended that the new body would be given responsibility for planning, funding, contracting, ensuring quality, financial monitoring, audit and performance, and be the lead funder of research. In line with Professor Hazelkorn’s recommendations, the current functions of the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales would be transferred to the new authority, which would operate at arm’s length from the Welsh Government. Let me be clear: our universities were founded, grew and now prosper as autonomous institutions with academic freedom—a principle that remains secure. This is an opportunity to shape a system where institutions of all types are encouraged to work together to meet learners’ needs, enabling progression and building strong links with businesses, so that skills gaps can be addressed. The new body would develop strong links with others, including schools and business, so that young people can move smoothly to further or higher education and find the opportunities that best meet their needs and aspirations.

Following consultation, Deputy Presiding Officer, I plan to bring forward legislative proposals later on in this Assembly term. To help manage the transition, the current chair of HEFCW has provisionally agreed to continue in this role for a further three years, for which I am grateful. Alongside this, I am seeking new members for the HEFCW council with experience in a wider range of areas, including work-based learning, further education and major public and private sector employment, in addition to existing strengths in higher education, innovation and research. In addition, we continue to seek the best advice and support for raising standards and enhancing opportunities.

Building on the work undertaken by Professor Hazelkorn and Professor Ian Diamond, I am able to announce that Professor Graeme Reid will oversee a review of research and innovation activity investment made by Welsh Government and related agencies. Later in the spring, I also intend to review how we monitor and improve effectiveness and outcomes in our post-compulsory education system.

So, Llywydd, I see these proposals and the other work I have announced today as the start of an informed debate. It must involve the education sector as a whole, business, learners and all who have an interest in making our post-compulsory education and training system the very best that it can be.

Can I thank the Cabinet Secretary for her statement this afternoon and can I reiterate her thanks to Professor Hazelkorn for her work, of course, leading the review? Plaid Cymru supports the general thrust of your statement this afternoon and we are committed, of course, to work in the spirit of Hazelkorn to promote equity between academic and vocational education to eliminate much of the wasteful competition that has emerged in post-16 education in recent years and, of course, to develop clearer and more flexible post-16 learning pathways.

So, just a few questions, really, in terms of detail, maybe, more than anything else, although I would start by asking you to clarify that I am right, I think, in reading into your statement a clear signal that the Welsh Government will now pursue vigorously a move away from a market-demand-driven system to a better mix, as Hazelkorn says, of regulation and competition-based funding.

In terms of the tertiary education authority—and we have to get used to new acronyms every day in this place—as you know, one of the key decisions that will need to be made is where sixth forms sit in this new proposed structure. I’m just interested in your initial thoughts around whether they should remain as they are—very much part of the school system, beholden to Estyn in terms of inspections, et cetera—or whether you do see them actually coming now as a post-16 provision under the proposed new tertiary education authority, if or when that comes into being.

Likewise, of course, we are aware of the proposed extension of the remit of the Coleg Cymraeg Cenedlaethol into FE, with the Coleg Cymraeg being directly funded now by Welsh Government. Where will that discussion happen in relation to its relationship with the proposed TEA? You say in your statement that it’s critical that we hear from learners, leaders and practitioners in this process, and I couldn’t agree more, but would you not agree that that needs to be an ongoing thing, and that when it comes, for example, to the TEA governing board, staff and students should have a representation on that board, so that obviously those voices can continue to be heard?

There’s no specifics around timescale here, although I do note the agreement of a further three-year period for the chair of HEFCW—maybe you could give us an idea of whether you therefore expect this process to conclude within those three years.

You slipped in announcements about two further reviews towards the end of the statement. The review of research and innovation activity—clearly we’ve had the Diamond review, which, one would imagine, would have overlapped somewhat. Maybe you could elaborate a bit about what you expect from the review by Professor Graeme Reid over and above Diamond and the thinking behind asking for that. And finally, the other review that you’ve announced this afternoon around how we monitor and improve effectiveness and outcomes: is this your first move, maybe, in creating a Welsh version of the teaching excellence framework? Or would it be, potentially, your first move in rebutting the TEF in Wales?

Can I thank Llyr for his questions and the shared understanding and agreement I think there is between us around the issues that we need to solve with regard to post-compulsory education. You’re absolutely right, the current system does lead to duplication and competition in a way that is often unhelpful. It does not provide, as Hazelkorn said herself in the report, good value for public money, and at a time of austerity we need to make sure that the Welsh pound is working really, really hard and delivering good outcomes. We need to ensure that there is collaboration across the sector, rather than competition, which sometimes does not promote the best interests of the individual student. Sometimes, understandably, it promotes the best interests of the institution rather than the learner, and that’s what we need to address here.

So, with regard to the tertiary education authority, which is known as a TEA—and if somebody could come up with a better name for it during the consultation, I would be grateful, because I think the ‘TEA’ is not a great term, so we need to call it something else, but it is referred to as a TEA in the Hazelkorn report. With regard to the issue around sixth forms, the Member says at the moment sixth forms are part of the school system—actually, they’re not part of the school system at all. Sixth forms are funded directly by Welsh Government in terms of allocations to local authorities. They’re not part of the revenue support grant. Sixth forms are not actually inspected by Estyn—this may be of surprise to some people, but that is not necessarily what Estyn do when they go into a school—to look at sixth-form provision. They are there to look at the compulsory education system, and I think that is a problem.

Hazelkorn herself says in the review that it is undecided about where best sixth forms sit in this debate, and there is merit in moving them as part of the post-compulsory education system into the TEA, but there is also merit, as there is in some countries that I’ve alluded to, where they sit very firmly in the education system. The consultation gives us an opportunity to explore the pros and cons of both sections. I’m open-minded to this. I think there is merit in terms of simplicity and the role of Estyn in keeping them and putting them very much in the schools framework. But at the same time, if we want to ensure that there is no competition and there is overall planning, there is a reason why you would put them into the tertiary education authority. But the consultation is an opportunity to tease through in greater detail some of those issues.

With regard to the ‘coleg’, as you know, the task and finish group is currently looking at the future remit of the ‘coleg’. The ‘coleg’ has done fantastic work in expanding the opportunities in higher education to study through the medium of Welsh, and the fact that they’ve done such a good job of that gives me some confidence that we can, at this stage, look to extend their remit into further education. We know that there is a paucity of provision in FE learning through the medium of Welsh, which this Government wants to do something about, and therefore we need to look at the most effective ways of doing that. The future remit of what the ‘coleg’ will do, of course, is subject to that task and finish review group, and I don’t want to pre-empt anything that Delyth Evans’s group will come forward with. But, obviously, the future commissioning of some of these issues will, again, form part of the consultation with regard to the TEA. What was important to me at this stage was to secure the funding for the ‘coleg’ going forward in the short-to-medium term, so that there was some certainty about their work.

With regard to representation—again, the details of how exactly the TEA and the board will look—it would be my expectation that if we were to have an organisation that truly is learner focused and learner centered, we would want all stakeholders to have a seat around that and be able to hear from those voices, and that would include the student voice. That would include the student voice in the way that it is heard in HEFCW, in the current arrangements, and I don’t see this in any way as an attempt to water down the student voice, or to water down the voice of the people who are delivering the services.

With regard to the other issues, Professor Graeme Reid’s review will identify research and innovation strengths in Wales, and outline how these assets can be used more effectively by business, by communities and, indeed, by the Government itself. We know, because of changes arising out of the Higher Education and Research Bill 2016-17 in England, there are potential issues around research and how we organise research, so we want Graeme Reid to look at this to make sure, again, we’re getting the best value for money and how we can protect Welsh interests at this changing time.

With regard to the other review about outcomes, this is the issue as we—. In some ways, we monitor schools to death. We spend a lot of time worrying about level 2 plus inclusives and what children get in their GCSEs and performance measures. We spend less time worrying about what the outcomes look like at A-level and we spend less time looking at the outcomes of work based learning opportunities, so this is about making sure that there is the same rigour in terms of progress and moving forward in all aspects of learning than just the specific sectors we tend to look at at the moment. This is not an attempt to introduce TEF into Wales. You will be aware that I have not ruled out Welsh universities and institutions participating in TEF—it is their decision to do so—but I do note the move by many Scottish institutions recently to say that they will not be participating in TEF because there are grave concerns about how the TEF framework is developed in England, and what that means for institutions. It is a matter for individual Welsh institutions, but this is not an attempt to introduce TEF, but it is to make sure that we have rigorous systems to check the outcomes that learners are getting and that Welsh Government is getting for its investment.

Can I thank the Cabinet Secretary for her statement this afternoon? We on this side of the Chamber welcome today’s statement, but perhaps, from the outset, can I just clarify that the Welsh Government will be accepting in full all the recommendations in Professor Hazelkorn’s report? Can I also take this opportunity to thank Professor Hazelkorn for undertaking this important piece of work, and I believe that she’s absolutely right to say that education plays a vital role in shaping our society?

We can’t deny that there has been a raft of strategic policy documents generated by successive Welsh Governments, however those strategies have failed to deliver significant outcomes for learners, and quite clearly, there has been an absence of strategic capacity and joined-up thinking between the Welsh Government and education institutions in recent years. Within the post-compulsory education sector, there needs to be greater choice, but there also needs to be collaboration to ensure critical mass. There are good examples of that collaboration, the Centre for Aging and Dementia Research being just one.

It is vitally important we grasp this new opportunity now because, as the report points out, Wales does face demographic, social and economic challenges. We also face further change in relationships between the UK nations, between the UK and the European Union, and between Wales and rest of the world. I agree with today’s statement that doing nothing or maintaining the status quo is not a viable option. Therefore, it’s crucial that we ensure our post-compulsory education system is characterised by open and competitive education, offering the widest chance and choice to the broadest number of students.

Now, I note from today’s statement, Cabinet Secretary, that you plan to consult later this year on proposals for establishing a single strategic authority responsible for overseeing all aspects of post-compulsory education and training. Given that HEFCW will be transferred to this new authority, can you tell us how the individual post-compulsory sectors will be prioritised within this new body, and how will you ensure that all aspects of the different sectors will be appropriately reflected by this new authority?

Of course, it’s essential that the new organisation is properly resourced so it has the capacity to undertake and execute its functions. Therefore, do you have an initial financial envelope in mind at this stage? Or is the resourcing of such a body something that needs to be discussed in much more detail as you go forward, and will this be part of your consultation? Now, I ask this question because we know that HEFCW’s budget has been significantly squeezed over the past six years, and that has had an impact on the funding it has allocated to Welsh universities. Therefore, it’s important that this new body is properly and appropriately funded so that it can function effectively and serve the needs of the post-compulsory education sector. And can you, at this stage, give us an indication of what the cost implications of winding up HEFCW are and whether you believe there will be significant cost savings? How do you intend to approach the human resources implications of its dissolution?

Now, establishing this new body will obviously result in a new service level agreement between the Welsh Government and this new body. Can I ask you, therefore, how you envisage the service level agreement between the Welsh Government and the tertiary education authority operating in relation to an agreed programme of work? I hope you can also give us reassurances that any new service level agreement will be sufficient from the start, because we certainly don’t want a repeat of other insufficient service level agreements, such as Estyn’s service level agreement with the Government where it has had to go to Welsh Ministers to ask for additional resources to undertake certain aspects of its work. Therefore, it’s essential that any new service level agreement is appropriate from the outset. Given that a whole new organisation is being proposed, do you envisage further mergers or federal partnerships within the FE and HE sectors as a result of this restructuring?

Now, due to the complexity of the current post-compulsory system, it’s right to say that quality assurance across FE and HE has been mixed, and quality assurance is going to be a vital component of the new body to ensure that standards and governance are high. Can you therefore tell us how will the establishment of this new body affect Estyn’s role, because, as we know, Estyn regulates FE, vocational work-based learning, as well as community learning? So, how will its role change in the future and, crucially, Cabinet Secretary, do you intend to review Estyn’s role and functions before making any substantive legislative changes?

Of course, as you’ve said today, ensuring parity of esteem is essential for our FE and vocational providers because they have been underappreciated in the last few decades. We need to recognise the vital contribution that FE and vocational skills make to the Welsh economy, especially in our most disadvantaged communities, and that they should be properly resourced. Therefore, can you tell us how the new body will ensure that FE institutions develop and operate to their full potential? In other words, how do you see this new body making a real difference to FE institutions compared to the current structure?

Therefore, in closing, Deputy Presiding Officer, can I thank the Cabinet Secretary for her statement? We look forward to hearing more about the Welsh Government’s plans in this area in due course.

Once again, can I thank Paul Davies for stepping into the breach and for his questions this afternoon? If we start from the point of principle, I think that addresses many of the issues that you’ve raised. Establishing a single authority to oversee the whole of post-compulsory education and training, I believe, will improve strategic planning; it will help prevent duplication, which has occurred, and unhealthy competition; but it will also address gaps in provision where students and learners have not been able to fulfil their aspirations, because those opportunities haven’t been available. I expect it to promote collaboration between institutions, making it easier, for instance, for a learner to be able to move seamlessly between work-based learning and FE, FE and HE, schools and FE, so that collaboration would create pathways that really, really do focus on the needs of individual learners at all points during their educational journey. As well, crucially, we need to strengthen links between schools, but also employers. It’s crucial—crucial—that we get this right, and the current system, at the moment, can be devilishly, fiendishly difficult for employers to engage with and to know whom to work with. So, again, this is one of the reasons why we need to have this single authority.

Now, I believe if we do that, it will enhance support for learners as well as getting better value for money. At this stage, some very initial financial planning is being undertaken, and this is a genuine consultation about how the TEA will actually work and how it will be constituted. So, therefore, at this stage, it’s difficult to be able to put a figure on it, but we do know that the current system can often be wasteful. You will also be aware, with regard to funding, that despite the difficult situation we find ourselves in, we have been able to find additional resources for HEFCW this year and, of course, one of the whole rationales behind our Diamond reforms is to put the funding of HE in the round, for both institutions and individual students, on a more sound and sustainable footing going forward. That’s one of the rationales behind our reform programme.

So, at this stage, I will admit that there will be mainly questions about how the new authority would operate, and we will give careful consideration to those in the consultation. I’m hopeful that the consultation will be able to begin in the spring and—I’m sorry—I didn’t really answer Llyr’s question about the timescales. We would look to seek to have a legislative opportunity in consultation with the legislative liaison committee that exists between the Government and Plaid Cymru, but I have applied for a legislative slot that would see this process, hopefully, complete within a three-year time frame. You’re right; potentially, there are human resource issues that will need to be carefully and sensitively handled as we take this process forward. Therefore, I am giving myself quite a broad timescale for doing it because it needs to be done right, and avoid some of the pitfalls that we have experienced in bringing organisations together in the past. We need to learn the lessons of that and to make sure that it’s done successfully, going forward.

Paul asked about the hierarchy of need and who gets priority. The whole point of having this organisation is that there is, indeed, parity of esteem within the organisation. So, this isn’t about prioritising FE over HE, or work-based learning over learning in a university or college. The whole point of this is that there is intrinsic value in all these learning and educational opportunities. We need to plan that on a strategic basis. I truly believe that—and it was in the feedback from Hazelkorn herself—both the FE institutions and HE want to see themselves as a single system, but often it’s difficult to do that. Bringing people into one organisation, I believe, will help to address some of those problems that they themselves have identified. Second, in having this authority, with learners at the centre, it will allow the progression that I’ve talked about earlier. Thirdly, other systems, such as in New Zealand, and to a lesser extent, maybe, Scotland, that parity of esteem is the central guiding principle within the organisation itself. That leadership then reverberates throughout the system.

I welcome the comprehensive response of the statement to the Hazelkorn review, but I’ll confine my remarks to a specific but—I think—very important issue. Hazelkorn and this statement recognise that there must be a concerted attempt to deliver parity of esteem of vocational and academic pathways. I believe that this means that new and vastly improved advice, guidance and training, as appropriate, will need to be provided to schools, teachers and careers advisers on how to guide our young people—and parents—towards the appropriate pathways. To ascertain the scale of the challenge, we may first need to do some analysis of the current level of awareness and understanding of parents, guardians and educators of the different pathways available. I think that that’s a simple fact. Nowadays, many parents and older pupils increasingly turn to the internet for careers advice, or to seek information on colleges, FEIs and universities, for apprenticeship opportunities or traineeships. The Careers Wales portal is having a refresh, which is very welcome, because it needs to be the go-to site for timely appropriate guidance and for specific opportunities. It hasn’t served that function well in the recent past. So, I would ask the Minister to encourage them to continue improving that portal and the wider service they provide.

Can I ask the Minister to consider how the wider UK offer is incorporated into this advice? Often, larger companies with a UK presence offer opportunities outside of Wales. Whilst I’d love for all of our aspirant aerospace engineers or civil engineers to want to spend their whole lives working here, in their homeland, the reality is that—like me, when I was a young sports centre manager—people will find that the call takes them away before ‘hiraeth’ brings them back. So, how do we incorporate that within the advice that we’re giving?

And would she agree with me that we will know when we’ve done success? It’s when she and I step into those school prize-giving and award ceremonies and they give equal prominence to vocational success as to academic success; they celebrate BTEC and BTEC higher rewards, offers of apprenticeships and traineeships and higher apprenticeships with leading Welsh and UK companies, alongside offers of university places. Then we’ll know we’ve really succeeded.

Huw, you raise a fundamentally important point that we can have the best structure and the best strategic planning of these opportunities, but unless we successfully engage with young people, potential students and learners of all kinds, and the people who influence their choices, then we won’t realise the full benefit of this. We’re all guilty of it. Our children, often, are the prisoners of our own experience. So, if mum and dad did it a certain way, whatever way that is, if mum and dad did it that way, that’s the way you think it should be done. Sometimes it’s difficult to break free of your own experience and, sometimes, your own prejudices about how children should move forward.

My Cabinet colleague the Minister for Lifelong Learning and Welsh Language is actively engaged in discussions with Careers Wales about making sure that children and students have access to the very best possible careers advice that gives them the widest possible range of choices and opportunities, whatever that is, and is based purely not on advantages for individual institutions, but on the advantages for and the needs of that particular student. If we need to do more research, and we need to do more work on this, then I’m sure the Minister has heard you, and we’re not frightened to do that.

I must say, I already go to prize-givings where there are celebrations of a wide variety of achievements of all kinds, whether those be academic or social—the child that has contributed to the school through their caring for other students, through their commitment to trying to be helpful to the school, as well as people who have taken different courses. So, I see that out there, but it is patchy and it is not commonplace, and we need to make it so. But I also come across young people who are making very positive decisions. I know of one young man—his mum is a friend of mine—who this summer had the choice between an engineering degree at a Welsh university or an apprenticeship with a engineering company, and he has gone for the apprenticeship, because he is savvy enough to know that, eventually, that company will pay for his degree for him, and he wants to learn on the job. That’s a very positive choice for him. So, we need to make sure that other students have those opportunities and have the ability to make choices that are best for them. I will continue to work with the Minister for Lifelong Learning and the Welsh Language to ensure that we have a system of advice and guidance that will make the most of the structural changes that we’re making.

Thank you for your statement, Cabinet Secretary, and thank you also to Professor Hazelkorn for all her work. I’ve read the report, obviously. It’s an excellent report, and it’s a very, very interesting report.

The problems identified in this report have been raised in a variety of other reports since 2001. Those problems have been left unsolved since that time. The Hazelkorn report makes many excellent recommendations, and I agree that there should be a single new authority established, but I would say that it’s a shame that the self-proclaimed party of education haven’t done it already. I also go along with the need for clear delineated roles and functions for the executive—the new tertiary education authority—Welsh Government and institutions, including a service level agreement between the TEA and Welsh Government. If you implement this recommendation, and I think you should, will we see the SLA before it’s implemented?

The biggest question this report raises for me is why the Welsh Government hasn’t come up with these ideas already. Why didn’t the previous Welsh Labour administrations listen to the earlier reports? Does the Cabinet Secretary agree with me that the fact that the Government need to be told by the authors of this report that they have to do more to create the appropriate policies and practices to encourage better long-term and joined-up thinking shows that it is the Welsh Government that should be back in the classroom? Surely, that is such a basic requirement of Government that there is no excuse for not getting it right.

Both your party and your new friends in Labour falsely claim that UKIP’s plans to develop a new generation of grammar and technical schools might lead to inequality of esteem between vocational and academic pathways. Welsh Labour have been and continue to be dazzled by Tony Blair’s counterproductive obsession with getting as many people through the doors of a university as possible. Why is that, and where does that come from?

This report confirms that Labour itself has been throwing those who are not academically minded onto the scrap heap. It says that the Government is not doing enough to value and reward parity of esteem between vocational and academic pathways. I wonder if the Cabinet Secretary will be good enough to admit the hypocrisy of those trying to appear to be protecting the interests of those who would benefit the most from a vocational learning path, while all the time being guilty of doing the opposite.

I appreciate the Cabinet Secretary has only recently taken up post as Cabinet Secretary for Education, but I wonder can she tell me what it is that the Labour education Ministers before here were getting wrong for so long that it’s led to this rather unfortunate report.

Does the Cabinet Secretary endorse and agree with the report in its entirety and, if not, why not? If she does, what steps will be taken to implement its recommendations and what is the timetable? As well, how will you ensure that sufficient resources are provided to give effect to the reforms? Thank you.

Thank you very much to Michelle Brown for her questions. With regard to the recommendations, I have indicated that I’m accepting the recommendations. The consultation will take place in the spring. To give effect to this, I will need to bring forward legislation and that needs to find its way into the timetable of general legislation across the entire Government. But as I indicated earlier, I’m hopeful that we can do that, this entire process—the consultation, the proper scrutiny processes of legislation that the Bill will need to go through in this Chamber—in the period of three years.

I’m not responsible for the actions of the previous Ministers, but I should point out that it was a previous Minister that commissioned this report, having identified the need to make progress in this area. It should also be noted that, not a similar attempt, but an attempt in this agenda was made in the early days of the National Assembly for Wales, but unfortunately we did not have the legislative powers to create this authority. I remember those days very well, when we struggled to create that single entity because of the lack of ability within this Chamber to make the changes that we wanted to be made. Now, that is no longer a reason for no action. We have the powers there. We said, when we got those powers, they would be powers with a purpose and I am applying those to the purpose of reforming this particular part of education.

Parity of esteem—it’s an issue that has dogged us. As we’ve just heard from Huw Irranca-Davies, some of that is cultural. Some of that we’re guilty of ourselves in our own daily lives and the conversations that we’ve had with our children. The aim of this system, as I explained to Paul Davies in response to his question, is to create a structure that does promote parity of esteem. But I’ll tell you one way we do not promote parity of esteem is dividing children up at the age of 11 into whether they do vocational or academic qualifications. This system will allow children to pursue both routes, if that is what they want to do, to move seamlessly between vocational and work-based learning, between practical education and the more academic routes. That’s the whole purpose of being able to bring these routes together, because there is nothing—nothing—that promotes parity of esteem in saying to an 11-year-old, ‘You are going one way and your friend is going the other’, and dividing those children at that time.

As one who has been most fortunate to be able to contribute to education and governance across this system for very many years, may I first of all congratulate the Minister on her courage? It is about time that we had a Minister who is willing to get to grips with the differences and inequality that have been part of the post-16 system from the very outset. I’m grateful to her for doing that. I am pleased that she has been able to take advantage of the work of genius provided by Ellen Hazelkorn and the people arguing the importance of having a civic mission in education, because there is no other mission available in education—I’m sure the Minister would agree with me on that.

I do want to ask just one or two questions. Would she consider, for example, that one way of undermining any opposition that may appear from certain dinosaurs in this sector would be to publish a draft Bill? So, rather than carrying out a consultation and then legislating, she should ask her officials—. The Chair of the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee is sitting across the way from me, and I’m sure that we would be more than happy to assist in any scrutiny of any draft Bill—not that we’re looking for work, but we would be happy to undertake that kind of thing, because that would give an opportunity for the consultation and for the pre-legislative scrutiny to happen simultaneously.

May I thank her for continuing to use the services of David Allen? He is an excellent man, who has made contributions to universities in Wales and England. What’s important to recall about David—I’m sure that the Minister would agree with me on this—is that he continues, as we speak, to be a governor of Exeter further education college, as a former registrar of the university, and continues to work for us here in Wales too, and he understands fully what the needs of the sector are. I’m afraid that I do have some quite radical ideas on the need to mainstream bilingual education throughout the whole system. I do have some even more aggressive ideas that she couldn’t imagine about abolishing the sixth-form system, as we have done in Dwyfor Meirionnydd over many decades, but that’s for another day, I believe.

Could I thank Dafydd Elis-Thomas for his comments? I will, indeed, give due consideration to the most appropriate legislative formats that we can pursue. I think there is merit in looking at a draft Bill, and I will want to give this institution—to pay it all due respect and give every opportunity for colleagues across the Chamber to play a part in developing the policy further. Can I also agree with you about the ongoing commitment of David Allen to the sector? I’m very grateful to him for the leadership that he has provided and his willingness to continue in that role. That will be a very important thing.

With regard to tertiary systems, I’m sure the Member will have heard me answer questions before. I don’t see it as my job to dictate to local communities an education system that best suits their area. There are some parts of Wales where a tertiary education system has flourished and serves its students very well; there are other parts of Wales where a more traditional sixth form is a system that, again, serves the local population very well. What’s important to me is not the nature of the provision, except that that provision is high quality, it meets the needs and aspirations of our young people, and it delivers for them, whether that is in a tertiary system or in a sixth form. And one of the things that we will consider is where best sixth forms can sit within this system.

And, as I announced, I’ll be looking at ways in which we can better monitor outcomes of post-compulsory education in a way that, perhaps, we have taken our eye off the ball, for instance, with A-levels. In the past, we have never set ourselves stringent targets for A-level performance. Maybe it was because we felt that it was a minority sport and those children, well, they will get on anyway, and we don’t need to worry about it. But students studying at that level now, it’s not a minority sport—the majority of our young people go on to study post compulsory, and we need to make sure that we are paying as much attention to performance in that area as we’re doing in the compulsory sector.

And, finally, Suzy Davies.

Thank you very much. Thank you very much for your statement. I heartily endorse your comments on needing employers’ buy-in to this, particularly for workplace learning and, of course, for parity of esteem. You mentioned a few times that this is based not on the institution, but that the focus is on the learner and fulfilling the aspirations of learners. Can you give us some indication of how this structural change will help those who are hoping to study post-16 education through the medium of Welsh?

Thank you for that, Suzy. The advantage of having this single body is that we can plan strategically and we can address gaps, as I said. And one of the gaps that we have at present, I believe, is a gap in Welsh-medium provision. We know that there is a growing demand for people who have skills in the Welsh language in a whole variety of areas. I’m particularly interested in, as is my ministerial colleague, how we can ensure we have caring roles—that people have Welsh language skills to do that, whether that is for older people, or, for instance, as we roll out the Government’s childcare offer, that needs to be available through the medium of Welsh, and therefore having training opportunities to qualify those people to be able to do that job and to be able to do it through the medium of Welsh is vitally important. Therefore, having a strategic body that looks at the plan overall I think will help improve that, as well as the work of Delyth Evans, who is currently looking at the remit of the ‘coleg’ and whether we can extend that into FE. I don’t want to prejudge the outcomes of that, but I believe the ‘coleg’ has done a very good job in terms of HE. I think they have proven their ability to get things done and, therefore, I think it’s right that we should look now to see whether they can plan that. But having a more strategic overview of what we’re commissioning and monitoring the quality of outcomes, I think will make a difference to provision in the Welsh language.

Thank you very much, Cabinet Secretary.