The next item on our agenda is the statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure on the future of local bus services. I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure, Ken Skates.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer.

On 18 October last year, I came to this Chamber and made a statement about the future of local bus services in Wales. The statement was made in the wake of some significant and high-profile business failures within the Welsh bus sector that had a significant impact on local bus services provided in Wales and in England. In response to these failures, I announced a five-point plan to support the bus sector in the short term. This included support from Business Wales and from Finance Wales, the appointment of additional transport co-ordinators in north and south Wales, together with a programme of meetings with representatives of the bus industry—both in the private and in the public sector—to discuss some of the threats and opportunities facing the bus sector in Wales. We are making progress on delivering this action plan.

I expect the transport co-ordinators to be appointed very soon. I am also continuing to meet with representatives from local authorities, their bus companies, and the Confederation of Passenger Transport. As part of the five-point plan, I also promised to host a Welsh bus summit—the first to be held in Wales. I am pleased to be able to report that the summit was held last month in Wrexham. I very much commend the open, honest and positive attitude that was collectively adopted by the delegates attending the summit. I believe that we made real progress in framing the threats and opportunities that are facing the bus industry across Wales and in developing a programme of activity that will support the industry over the short to medium term.

Through a programme of workshops taking place over the next 12 months, we will be working with the bus industry, local government colleagues and other partners to consider how best we can improve the passenger experience at bus stops by providing improved facilities and consistent passenger information, develop funding solutions that offer greater stability to the bus industry in Wales, and deliver an integrated transport system that provides improved accessibility and ticketing solutions fit for the twenty-first century.

Delivering a more effective network of local bus services, together with the development of seamless, integrated and multimodal ticketing arrangements as part of the south-east and north-east Wales metros, will be fundamental to our objective of building a connected and sustainable society. As I said at the summit, the public investment in our public transport system is substantial. Taken together with public funding provided to maintain free bus travel for older people and disabled people, contracted bus services for learner travel, community travel and funding provided to support rail services in Wales, the public sector investment in our public transport network is in the region of £0.5 billion annually. I’m simply not convinced that we are getting the value for money that the people of Wales have the right to expect. While we take forward the short to medium term measures set out in my five-point plan, we also need to start a national dialogue about the longer-term framework for the delivery of local bus services across Wales. Next week, I will be publishing a public consultation on a set of suggested measures that, in the longer term, could reform the way in which bus services are planned and delivered across Wales. One of the clear messages emerging from the bus summit is that the current framework imposes too many constraints on bus operators to work together to benefit passengers. The current framework also imposes too many constraints on the Welsh Government and our local authority’s ability to plan and to fund improvements to local bus services and ensure that they’re able to full integrate with other local public services.

We need to ensure that local authorities are provided the tools to plan and organise services in their areas and that local authorities exercise these functions with transparency and with accountability for people living in their areas. We need to ensure that the best characteristics of the private sector are maintained to ensure that the social responsibility that we all share to deliver effective and efficient services to the public is safeguarded. This means striking the right balance between our duty not to inhibit the benefits that effective and fair competition can bring to the delivery of local bus services against meeting the needs of passengers and securing value for money for the public purse.

In my view, that does not mean aggressive competition on the street and at the bus stop that harms the interests of passengers, but effective competition that drives up quality standards and provides a fair return for bus operators. I’ve recognised and acknowledged the significant investment that has taken place in our local bus services by bus companies operating in Wales. There has been significant investment on routes operated to communities in the south Wales Valleys. These new bus services will encourage people out of their cars by offering levels of service and quality that, until a few years ago, many people in Wales would not have expected. People not familiar with those local bus services in those areas need to take a look at what’s on offer now.

But this level of quality, punctuality and reliability is not universally available. Significant challenges remain. So, as part of the national dialogue on the way forward, the consultation will set out some suggested proposals that I believe could make a significant improvement to bus services in Wales. Let me be clear: this consultation forms a basis of the continuing national discussion and dialogue that I want with bus operators, local authorities and passengers about the way we can deliver local bus services in the longer term. Let me also be clear on the aim of this work and the goals I’m seeking to achieve. Firstly, I want to increase the number of people of all ages using buses for their daily commute to work, for education, access to health services and for leisure activities. Secondly, I want to improve the availability of good-quality and accessible local bus services for passengers right across Wales. Thirdly, I want to establish a national and local bus network that is fully integrated with other travel modes and services provided across Wales. Fourthly, I want to see a more sustainable bus network for the longer term. And lastly, I want to deliver a fair deal for passengers, staff, bus operators and the public sector—a financially viable and sustainable bus network that provides value for money and safeguards the best characteristics of the commercial bus sector.

I want to ensure that our bus services, as part of an integrated public transport system, make a significant contribution to safeguarding the well-being of future generations. We all recognise that our public transport system is key to tackling poor air quality zones, supporting a sustainable and thriving economy and contributing to our ambitions for improving low-emission mobility as part of our efforts to achieve decarbonisation. I want to see the rolling back of the more damaging effects of the changes made to our local bus services more than thirty years ago—a change that served only to undermine, threaten and destabilise local bus services.

The Presiding Officer took the Chair.

So, on that basis, I am encouraging bus operators, local authorities, passengers and the people of Wales to join this national discussion about how we make sure that the people of Wales can keep moving well into the future.

I’d like to thank the Cabinet Secretary for his statement this afternoon. I should also say that I’ve had a lot of positive feedback about the bus summit as well, which was held last month. I am grateful as well that the Cabinet Secretary extended the invitation to Assembly Members to also attend that event.

I’m sure you’ll agree with me, Cabinet Secretary, that the long-term stability and continuity of funding support from the Welsh Government is absolutely crucial to help the industry to plan ahead in providing services and ensure continued investment. You referred to the need to develop funding solutions that offer greater stability to the bus industry. Therefore, I would be grateful if you could outline whether the merits of introducing a multi-year funding agreement will be considered to provide, of course, the certainty for operators to plan and invest in their services, rather than funding on a year-by-year basis.

You also mentioned in your statement, just for clarity, that public sector investment in our public transport network is in the region of £0.5 billion annually. Can I just check, because this is a statement on buses: is that all for buses? Can I just check that as well? Also, could I ask: how are you looking to tackle the ongoing issue of late payments from the Welsh Government to bus operators, which causes problems specifically for smaller and independent operators? I hope you would agree that this isn’t acceptable and must be addressed.

In your statement, you also recognise that there has been, historically, a lack of integration between bus services and other local public services. I’m pleased you’ve mentioned that. I’ve had quite a bit of casework on that very issue in regard to the lack of integration between bus and train timetables, which has been an issue, I think, that does require some improvement. So, I would be grateful for any more information on what the Welsh Government is doing to deliver a more integrated transport system in that regard.

It’s previously been proposed that franchising could be introduced. Now, this suggestion isn’t in your statement, so can you confirm whether this is a consideration as part of the consultation, and will you outline what representations you have received so far from the industry in response to this suggestion?

With regard to improving passenger experience, it is clear that the availability and frequency of regular bus services is a major issue within many areas of Wales. Having irregular bus services in operation clearly discourages local residents from using bus services on a regular basis. So, can I ask what steps you will be taking to provide a more frequent and reliable bus service that residents can trust?

You also said in your statement that you have an aim to increase the number of people using buses for their daily transport needs, but there is still a cultural perception that buses are not a viable mode of transport for all. I’m not sure if you agree with that or not, but that’s my perspective. And this is demonstrated by the fact that you only managed to attract just 10 per cent of eligible young people to apply for the Welsh Government’s mytravelpass scheme. So, I’ll ask what specific measures you will take to incentivise more people to make the change from other forms of transport to buses through measures such as smart ticketing. Can I also ask you to commit to properly advertising the mytravelpass scheme to young people in Wales? You refer to the role of the bus operators in south-east Wales and north-east Wales metro transport systems; will the metro projects aim to incorporate or replace the small coach businesses currently in operation when they are implemented?

Finally, I would be grateful if you could provide an assurance today that the formation of any future Welsh Government plans will be as a result of constructive and positive dialogue with representatives of the industry, operators and with local authorities?

I’d like to thank Russell George for his questions and for his very generous acknowledgement of the success of the bus summit. I was very pleased to be able to invite along members of this Chamber, and I recognise the very great interest that Assembly Members have in the provision of local bus services. Indeed, I believe there are approximately nine speakers in this afternoon’s statement, which should hasten me to answer the Member’s questions very quickly.

In terms of funding, just to clarify, the £0.5 billion is for the whole of the rail and bus services as well as community transport. Furthermore, I believe that multi-year funding would and could be an attractive proposition if it were possible for us to have multi-year funding to be able to then pass on the benefits of more sustainable funding provision.

Late payments are not due to the Welsh Government. The bus services support grant is channelled through local authorities, but it’s certainly something that I would encourage local authorities to facilitate swiftly, without delay and efficiently.

Integration is a key issue that has been raised on a regular basis in my discussions with the industry and with passengers. It’s something that we will be able to address more fully with powers that are available to us through the Wales Act. In order to deliver the fully integrated system with integrated ticketing and multimodal ticketing, we may require new legislation, but this Government has already stated that it is willing to introduce legislation as and where necessary in this regard.

The Member also raised a question about franchising. Perhaps if I could just outline some of the contents of the consultation paper that will be launched next week: the proposals within the paper are not set in stone, that’s clear, but they are the basis for discussion, and they will cover considerations such as the introduction of franchising as well as the ability for local authorities to operate municipal companies and the setting of statutory quality standards, and requirements on planning and co-ordination of services to have a better, more integrated, higher quality service with a better fares regime that all passengers can easily understand and can take advantage of.

I do believe, as the Member rightly identified, there is an issue with perceptions of bus travel. With regard to the mytravelpass scheme, the uptake was disappointing. We had hoped for more young people to utilise this particular offer, but the Confederation of Passenger Transport have now accepted my request to come forward with a new marketing strategy. Having spoken with representative groups that are able to take advantage of mytravelpass, it was clear that the marketing of the scheme when it was in the trial period was not particularly effective in reaching those young people who strive to own a car. Now, one of the important points that came from the evaluation of the scheme—the perception was that young people did not believe that a further reduction in the fares would lead to an increase in the number of young people taking up the pass. I need to test this assertion further, because it is still my belief that, as a result of the concessionary fare scheme for older people and disabled people, we’ve seen a relatively good number of people using local bus services. However, we’ve also seen a reduction in that figure, in part due to fraudulent activities that have been uncovered and have led to prosecutions. But I want to see more people use bus services on a more regular basis. With the new scheme for youth concessionary fares, we are open to the idea of looking at a broader, better deal for young people, which could include a reduced-fare regime.

The incentives that the Member raised for encouraging bus operators to deliver multimodal ticketing—again, this could come as a result of the legislation that we could bring forward as a result of the Wales Act. It is certainly something that we would be keen to look to achieve in the present Assembly term.

In terms of the metro, the Member asked a very important question about how the development of metros in the north east of Wales and south east of Wales could involve not just large bus companies but also smaller ones. One of the major challenges that has faced the industry in recent years has been the lack of available expertise within some well-established but small, family-run businesses. For that reason, we deployed Business Wales to be able to give advice to those companies, with a view of strengthening them for the development of a better, integrated public transport system. So, it’s our vision that those smaller companies will play a critical role alongside the larger companies, not just in the metro areas but also in between, in mid and west Wales as well.

I’m intrigued to know how you know how many speakers I have down for this afternoon’s statement, Cabinet Secretary, but we’ll pursue that elsewhere. [Laughter.] Dai Lloyd.

Thank you, Presiding Officer. I’d better make the most of my opportunity then. Could I welcome the statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure on the future of bus services, and also welcome his vision that there is a future for bus services, along the lines that he suggests? Because, of course, naturally, local bus services are the foundation of our public transport system, given the deprivation of large areas of Wales from any rail services at all. The majority of our population is entirely reliant on local bus services that allow them to go out when they can’t drive. Often the only way they have to reach hospital or a health centre or the shops is the local bus.

So, that local service is vital, because every day about 63,000 people depend entirely on bus services to travel to work, and some 350,000 journeys are made every day in order to reach hospital appointments, see friends, shop, or to do some kind of leisure activity. So, I welcome the fact that the Cabinet Secretary is persevering with his work to improve the provision of services across Wales. And, of course, I’m also very supportive of the five aims at the end of the statement, and look forward to the outcome of the consultation.

Of course, many years ago now, the buses were a public service. Of course, it sapped a lot of money at the time but at least it was a service, although not perfect, that people could rely on. A bus would turn up in the same place, around the time you were expecting it to turn up. As I said, that service wasn’t perfect, although it was a public service, and, of course, in the 1980s, a decision was made to privatise—or the word is to deregulate—with the idea of improving the service and saving money. Well, I would be happy to discuss with anyone—we haven’t seen an improvement in the service, if you look across the board, and we certainly haven’t saved any money either. As the Cabinet Secretary mentions in his statement, these services cost millions of pounds in public money every year. Therefore, deregulation hasn’t achieved the vision that was seen back in the 1980s by a long chalk. What we have, in terms of buses, is a divided service that often fails on a local level, in terms of bus companies going bust, as we’ve seen recently, and people just can’t rely on the bus turning up at the time it’s supposed to turn up. That’s one of the biggest complaints I receive. People wonder why people don’t use the local bus, well, the thing is you can’t rely on them. I try to catch the bus when I can, but if it’s vital that you turn up to an appointment at a specific time, you can’t depend on the bus, and people tend to make any other arrangement to ensure that they do get to such a place by the time they’re supposed to turn up, because you can’t rely on the bus.

And, of course, as I’ve already mentioned, the split service of the buses that we have at the moment is sapping more public funds than ever before. The vision back in the 1980s of saving money and improving services hasn’t been realised either. So, I do strongly support the Cabinet Secretary’s vision in the objective that he has stated in his comprehensive statement this afternoon. The questions—the majority of them—that I wanted to ask, have already been asked, but it does leave one. Just a final point: has the Cabinet Secretary considered the best way of spending the £15 million of additional capital funding that was set aside for the local transport fund following the autumn statement? Would it be possible to use some, if not all of that fund, to help local bus services? Thank you .

I’d like to thank Dai Lloyd for his contribution and, again, I’d like to thank him for his support for our endeavour to develop a better, more integrated, more responsive bus network across Wales. I think a common theme emerging across the Chamber is the belief that deregulation in the mid 1980s was nothing but a disaster for local bus services. And whilst Welsh Government was not the cause—and has not been the cause—of the problem that the bus service network has experienced, we can certainly be the cure, and that is precisely what we aim to be, through potential new legislative interventions, and also through shorter and medium-term projects that I’ve already outlined.

I think the Member is absolutely right to link the fight against deprivation and poverty with the availability of reliable and punctual bus services. We know that one of the major barriers to employment is the availability of a regular bus or rail service, or the availability of active travel networks to be able to access work. But also, the lack of a regular, punctual, reliable bus service inhibits an individual’s ability to access services and also leisure opportunities. So, the importance of the bus service network across Wales cannot be overstated. It’s a fact that, at present, more than 100 million journeys are undertaken on buses, compared to fewer than 30 million journeys that are undertaken on the rail network. It is a huge area of public service delivery that requires attention and will receive that attention through legislation and other means, in order to tear down those barriers to employment and connectivity, and also to drive a more punctual and reliable service.

I’m just reflecting on what Russell George said; I think one of the problems with the perception of the bus network has been one that concerns punctuality and whether you actually will get to work, or will get to the doctor’s surgery, or hospital, or to a family event on time. This must be addressed, not just through investment in the bus vehicles themselves—making sure that they don’t break down—but also through interventions such as dedicated bus lanes and better planning within the urban environment.

One of the five points within the five-point plan that was announced in the autumn was a renewed effort at a local authority level, with our assistance, to identify vulnerable bus services that are operating and to take early action, either to remedy the situation to support the bus operator or to find an alternative operator, if it’s viewed that the current operator’s service is in terminal decline. That came as a consequence of the GHA Coaches collapse. Many lessons have been learnt, not just in the north-east, where that service had been provided, but right across Wales.

The capital funding that is being made available to the local transport fund, I think, could be used in a variety of ways—it’s certainly something that we would consider using to strengthen the bus network, but also it should, I believe, be used to identify where there are infrastructure pinch points that prevent a bus service from operating in a punctual manner.

Above all, again reflecting on the contribution by Dai Lloyd, I think it’s imperative that the efforts of this Government ensure that the interests of passengers and a punctual reliable service are placed well ahead of profits. In the last 30 years since deregulation, I think it’s fair to say that the profit motive that has driven the bus network and operators across Wales has failed the passenger interest—that must be addressed and will be addressed. If I may say so, Llywydd, the reason that I know that there is a good number of speakers is because I have been informed by them, kindly, that they have a very keen interest in this area.

You don’t get away with it that easily. David Rowlands.

Diolch, Lywydd. Cabinet Secretary, we all welcome your statement this afternoon, but would you not agree that the whole strategy of delivering bus services needs a new and, perhaps, radical approach? Surely, the sight of 50-plus passenger buses often running empty and very often in tandem does not seem economically or environmentally acceptable. We are seeing the rise in community buses, which provide an excellent service where available, and which appear to be far more cost-effective as they often use smaller buses with more targeted objectives. Would the Cabinet Secretary consider that he would be expanding these types of operations? Is it time to look at the possibility of using smaller buses on many more routes within Wales, even combined with on-call taxi operations? These taxi operations would be far more acceptable and available to people with disabilities, et cetera. These vehicles could actually be using cleaner engine options, even providing the possibility of electric buses on more local runs. This would, of course, confine the 50-plus buses and their gas-guzzling operations to just long-haul services. Do you not agree that these are options that you should, in fact, be looking at?

I’d like to thank the Member for his questions. I would agree that we need something of a revolution rather than an evolution in the way that bus services are provided in Wales, now that we have the powers available to us to make the significant changes that are required in order to ensure that bus operators meet the expectations of passengers. For that reason, the consultation that will be launched next week will provide opportunities for the industry, for Members, for the public and for passengers to be able to provide ideas and opinions on how we can radically reshape the bus services that people value so deeply.

I do believe that community transport is an essential component of the mix that we have across Wales. Indeed, this is demonstrated by the significant increase in the number of passenger journeys that have been taken through community transport, in contrast to the steady decline in the number of journeys that have been taken on commercial bus routes. I believe firmly that there should be an expansion of community transport, and for that reason we make available resources to community transport initiatives through the bus services support grant. In addition to this, expert advice is available through the Business Wales network.

It’s essential that appropriate vehicles are used for all routes and the Member is correct in that, on occasions, sometimes on regular occasions, improper vehicles, vehicles that are too large, are used on routes. This is one of the challenges that we have sought to address through the construction of a quality partnership regime based on a voluntary agreement between local authorities and bus operators. However, given the requirement for bus operators and for local authorities to invest in respect of infrastructure that they are responsible for, we’ve not seen as many quality partnerships agreed as we would wish. For that reason, the two co-ordinators in the metro areas in the north-east and the south-east will be tasked primarily, in the first instance, to establish quality partnerships to ensure that the infrastructure that is available for passengers, in terms of proper, functioning information, in terms of decent quality, clean, safe bus stops is rolled out more regularly, and so that bus operators themselves provide more appropriate-sized vehicles.

I welcome the Cabinet Secretary’s statement and I also had very good feedback from people who attended the bus summit. I really welcome his support for buses because I think buses are absolutely key. Certainly in my constituency of Cardiff North there is a very positive perception of buses. I think I really see them as absolutely crucial to the running of transport in Wales. Would the Cabinet Secretary agree that it’s very important when there are new developments, such as the big housing developments that are going to take place in Cardiff, that bus services are built into those new developments right from the beginning, so that the bus services are an integral part of the community?

I was pleased to hear the Cabinet Secretary say earlier on about the new powers that will come to us under the Wales Bill and the further opportunities that will be offered there. Does he think that it will really then be possible for bus companies to work collaboratively with the local council to ensure that we don’t have duplication of routes and that we will be able to tackle some of the problems that deregulation has produced? I was very pleased to hear him say that he plans to have early identification of vulnerable routes, because obviously some of those vulnerable routes are life savers for some people in our community.

I also wanted to ask him what plans he has to promote greener, more environmentally friendly bus services—I’m thinking of bio-methane bus services and fully electric zero-carbon bus routes—and whether he’s made any consideration of those and whether he’s had any opportunity to read the report, ‘Any Journey is Greener by Bus’ by the Low Carbon Vehicle Partnership, and some of the suggestions in that to attract people back to buses where their numbers have sunk—in particular, some of the points that he’s already made in his statement today about real-time information, integrated ticketing, cleaner vehicles and also free Wi-Fi are some of the possibilities. But, of course, above all what’s important is the convenience for passengers. So, I wondered if he’d had an opportunity to look at those other issues in terms of developing the bus service.

Could I thank Julie Morgan for her contribution? Julie Morgan is a great advocate for bus usage, not just in Cardiff North, but right across Wales, and I know she cares passionately about the sustainability of key local bus services. The planning of bus services and the bus network right across local authority areas is crucial in determining where to build not just commercial properties, so that people can access work via bus, but also domestic dwellings. For that reason we have placed an expectation on local authorities to better design bus routes that actually meet the needs of passengers accessing places of work. Their powers, their resources, are constrained at present, given ongoing austerity and given, until recently, the lack of powers that will become available in due course. But it’s also essential that, as we develop the metro in the south-east of Wales, we incorporate into the plans for integrated transport appropriate park-and-ride and also cycle-and-ride schemes, and parking areas and cycling areas, so that people are able to switch from one mode of transport to another with the least hassle and at least cost. It’s our intention to ensure that bus companies do indeed work more collaboratively together—if needed, through legislation—not just in terms of identifying routes and ensuring that there is compatibility of timetables, but also to ensure that there are multi-journey, multi-modal, ticketing arrangements in place. One of the claims that has been made by bus operators consistently has been the difficulty with introducing multi-ticketing because of the challenge of apportioning the correct level of fares to each of the operators. We do not believe that this is an insurmountable challenge, and this is something that we believe should be an expectation once the Government has developed the new legislative requirements and the interventions needed to ensure that ticketing arrangements are more suited to the expectations of passengers.

The better bus fund is something that I remain open to consider. The green bus fund and the subsequent scheme that’s being operated by the UK Government—the low emissions fund—were extended to Wales at our request and following successful negotiations, but, disappointingly, no Welsh bids have been successful to date. I’m keen to see successful bids from Welsh operators, because we know from operators such as Stagecoach in the south-east and Cardiff Bus that, with investment in modern buses, you don’t just drive down emissions, you can also improve punctuality and quality for passengers. And so I’m open to the idea of a complementary better bus fund, but one that takes into account fully the advice of the bus policy advisory group, who have said that it should not be restricted to just low emissions vehicles, but that it could also be open to operators looking to improve other aspects of the passenger experience such as, as the Member rightly highlighted, the availability of Wi-Fi. It’s my belief that Wi-Fi now should be available as standard on all buses. It should not be an exception, it should not be a luxury, it should be an expectation that all passengers should have whenever they board a bus.

Can I echo some of Julie Morgan’s comments? I was glad that, towards the end of the statement, you do turn to some of the sustainability issues and refer to the well-being of future generations, the need to tackle poor air quality, and to see public transport as part of the efforts to achieve decarbonisation. I do hope we’ll see this fully in the fully worked-out plans that you’re going to bring forward, because I would say that, if it’s just what we can judge on in this statement, we seem to have references rather than commitments to how the future generations Act is going to really transform some of our urban and rural spaces and make them more amenable to be accessed in a way that doesn’t mean we’re constantly choked or threatened by motor transport and an over-reliance on it. I do see very ambitious and effective public transport buses often leading the way, but obviously rail and light rail too being essential to the economic and social renewal that we want in the years ahead.

Can I thank David Melding for his contribution? And I also recognise the importance of bus services to the sustainability of an integrated public transport system, and also to improving the environment in which we live. In terms of the future generations, the FG Bill—well, the FG Act—the commitments will emerge through the consultation. But I think, above all, we need to set an aspiration to significantly increase the number of people that use buses on a regular basis. By driving up the number of people that use buses, we will drive down usage of private vehicles and consequently drive down the amount that private vehicles emit into the atmosphere. We remain committed to delivery of the aspirations of the well-being of future generations Act and it’s my firm belief that public transport can play an important, significant role in lowering emissions right across Wales.

Can I add my voice to those who’ve congratulated the Cabinet Secretary on the bus summit, which, if I may say, demonstrated a great deal of foresight? And he’s gone beyond foresight to a predictive capacity today in his answers to Russell George. But I recently held a forum in Neath, before Christmas, to discuss the local economy, and one of the priorities that was discussed by the participants was the need for a better-integrated public transport system, so I welcome a number of the comments he’s made in this statement today.

Julie Morgan asked a number of the questions I was proposing to ask, but there are two outstanding questions that I’ll put to the Cabinet Secretary. Firstly is the question of bus priority technology, in terms of traffic lights and so on. What assessment has he made of what capacity there is for expanding that, which I think is pretty central to the passenger experience? The second point is this: in terms of integration and so on, does he foresee, perhaps in the longer term, an enhanced role for a body like Transport for Wales, which, as well as looking at the rail franchises, could also perhaps consider some of the strategic issues that face the bus service and, in particular, in the context of seeking an integrated transport system as is his objective?

Can I thank Jeremy Miles for his contribution and for his question? It is true that Transport for Wales could well manage a fully integrated transport system. It may well be that he’s been reading my mind, because that is exactly what I’ve been considering over the course of the past few months. Thanks also to Jeremy Miles for hosting what I believe was a very successful forum in Neath. I’m sorry that I wasn’t able to attend on that particular occasion, but the feedback that I have had from the forum aligned with the responses that were made as a consequence of the bus summit questionnaire, which was that we need to work more closely together than we have done. The fact is that that was the first bus summit to have been held, but we need to work more closely than we have done in order to understand what the collective challenges are, what the mutual challenges are, that we can overcome together. There will be, I am in no doubt, some difficult areas of discussion for some parties as we move through into next week with some of the proposals that we wish to bring forward in terms of, as I’ve said, radically reforming the way that bus services operate. But, at the end of the day, we need to put passengers first. We will do so through working with those organisations that represent passengers and also with the industry and local government. But it will be the passenger’s interest that takes priority at every stage of our deliberations.

In terms of traffic lights, this is a very interesting piece of work that I believe could be taken forward on a pilot basis, in particular, in one of the city regions, in particular as we look to embrace smart cities as a new way of living more effectively and efficiently and within our means, both in terms of natural resources and finance. I do think that the utilisation of smart traffic lights and dedicated bus lanes could be of incredible value.

May I thank the Cabinet Secretary for his statement today? I believe that this is the most comprehensive statement that I’ve ever heard on bus services in any parliament in the UK: let’s start there. I am so pleased that we are putting the bus at the heart of our public transport system, where it should be. May I also thank him for the invitation to participate in the summit in Wrexham? I very much hope that his approach to leadership as a Minister in this area will continue to engender enthusiasm out there in our communities.

Now I have the privilege, of course, of using buses almost on a daily basis in rural and urban areas. I have two brief questions for him. Does the Minister believe that there is a new role for schemes such as the Snowdonia green key initiative, which innovated, but not entirely successfully, in the past in the Snowdonia national park and surrounding areas, in order to reduce the pressure of visitors using cars in designated landscapes of the national parks and areas of outstanding national beauty and so on? Also, does he believe that there is a role from here on in for us to ensure that we never build bus stations and train stations separately anymore, particularly in some cities—I won’t name Swansea particularly, but there are a number of towns and cities in Wales where opportunities have been missed in the past to integrate? I think, if the Minister would lead on that, I’d be very grateful. The next time I am on the bus, I will be sure to praise the Minister to my fellow passengers.

May I thank Dafydd Elis-Thomas for his warmest of contributions? I’d like to say to the Member, and to all Members in this Chamber, that, as we progress with our proposals and with our work, I’ll make myself and my officials available for briefings to any Members who wish to know more about how we are changing the bus network across Wales and bus services right across the country. When I’m not running in Snowdonia, I can assure the Member that I do take the bus rather than use my car to access the highest point and then walk, and, in all seriousness, I would encourage all visitors to Snowdonia and to all national parks and areas of outstanding natural beauty to be respectful of the natural environment and to respect the fact that these are incredibly busy places for visitors and tourists, and therefore we should all play our responsible part in accessing protected landscapes in a responsible and respectful way, and that means by bus.

The services that the Member identified, I think, were innovative, have been innovative ways of addressing congestion within the national park. I would like to see any innovative model that the industry is able to devise, or that communities are able to devise, brought forward as a potential solution to congestion on our roads and in our park areas.

In terms of train and bus stations needing to be fully integrated, the Member is absolutely right that we are still having to deal with the failure in lack of foresight across the country in many parts of Wales in terms of now having to rebuild hubs, integrated hubs. For example, not far from where I live, not far from my own constituency in Wrexham, as a result of rail and bus stations being such a significant distance apart, we’re now having to look at investing in a new, combined hub. The lack of foresight was regrettable, deeply regrettable, but we remain committed to ensuring that, in the future, we do have fully integrated hubs, particularly in those areas such as the metros, but also in rural areas where we don’t just see many people using public transport to access work and services, but also many visitors using rail to access Wales’s wonderful countryside.

The failure of some bus services in north-east Wales has been well documented and referenced here today and it’s on the back of that, and, obviously, the many, multiple conversations that I’ve had with constituents regarding buses, that I welcome the bus summit held in Wrexham and the positive steps, going forward, that have begun to be outlined here today.

For many of my constituents and communities, bus services are a critical transport lifeline, and largely the only possible and viable alternative to travelling by car, particularly when there’s only one train station that is actually in the constituency. So, the bus services in our area not only need to be better connected with one another, but also timetabled to be fully integrated with the trains and train station. This is going to be key to being able to advance any metro-style transport system for the region, and buses are going to be the biggest part of that.

Cabinet Secretary, therefore can you offer further commitment and clarification on how we can practically ensure better connected and integrated services in north-east Wales, services that are sustainable, offer value for money, and also take out the hassle of having to have multiple tickets, to make this actually become a reality for my constituents and communities?

I’d like to thank Hannah Blythyn for her contribution and for her questions and say that, as a consequence of the failure of a number of bus operators in north Wales, we devised the five-point plan and, since that time, we have been able to, I believe, better identify where there have been vulnerable routes and take more immediate action. As a consequence of that, we’ve been able to sustain a bus network in that region and across Wales without further major failures. However, the work must continue—the work of advisers in Business Wales in ensuring that particularly the smaller, family firms that are so crucial in rural areas are able to operate in a way that is resilient and that is effective for passengers and for users.

Buses will be integral to the metros in the north-east and the south-east, because, in many parts, even in urban areas, but especially in rural areas, buses are not a luxury, they are a necessity. They are, in many instances, a lifeline in order to access important, vital public services. So, we believe that not only will a fully integrated bus network with the rail network and with active travel in the metro areas be important, but so too in rural areas. I do believe that we have a unique opportunity, as the Member identified, through the proposals that we are able to bring forward, through the new franchise for the Wales and borders routes, to be able to deliver a fully integrated public transport system where passengers will be able to purchase not just multiple tickets, but multimodal tickets, where timetables for rail and for bus services are fully integrated and where we have those crucial hubs, as Dafydd Elis-Thomas has outlined, in as many of our communities as possible.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary.