2. What discussions has the Counsel General had with other law officers regarding criminal penalties for anti-social behaviour offences? OAQ(5)0029(CG)

As Members will know, the answer, again, is subject to the established law officers’ convention.

Thank you. The Counsel General will be aware that issues such as fly-tipping, dog fouling and littering are a real concern for many people. Would the Counsel General agree with me that the penalties applied in respect of anti-social behaviour should be commensurate with the importance that the public places on the need to curb these behaviours?

Well, you raise a number of important issues with regard to legislation and powers that this Assembly and the Welsh Government have in respect of anti-social behaviour. Under the Wales Act 2017, aspects of anti-social behaviour with regard to injunctions, criminal behaviour and so on are, of course, reserved matters. But we do have considerable powers in respect of other areas of anti-social activity—housing, the environment—and you’ve referred to issues of dog fouling and fly-tipping. These are issues that I’m sure every single Assembly Member has raised with them regularly. So, the issue of penalties is important and it is important that penalties that are introduced not only have a deterrent effect but are also commensurate with the potential benefits of the anti-social activity. So, for example, you’ll be aware, of course, that there is a Welsh Government consultation under way at the moment in respect of fly- tipping and the issue of penalties and spot fines is there, part and parcel of that. And, of course, it must be the case that convictions and penalties for anti-social and unlawful activities have to ensure that the activity isn’t actually commercially viable and profitable despite the penalty. So, in relation to fixing penalties for areas within the competence, the Government will give thought to considering the seriousness of the offences involved and the nuisance created by the offences. In fixing penalties for environment-related anti-social behaviour, this is likely to extend to the potential costs of clear up, together with the aim of ensuring that the penalty is a sufficient deterrent to such activity—enforcement, of course, being a matter for local government, but enforcement, of course, being a significant and important part of ensuring that legislation is effective.

Dog fouling, litter picking and fly-tipping are all very important issues, but I’m afraid I’m having to deal with much more serious issues of anti-social behaviour in my constituency. In particular, an individual out on bail awaiting sentence, it is thought, has been conducting threatening behaviour against people who have also been the subject of previous criminal damage to both the front and the side of their house. Clearly, this is extremely intimidating and perhaps not unrelated to the offence for which this person is yet to be sentenced. So, what conversations do you have with law officers about the need to ensure that somebody out on bail is not committing further offences while they’re awaiting sentence?

Well, of course, and, again, in accordance with the convention, you’ll be aware that I’m not in a position to discuss conversations with other law officers. Perhaps what I could do, though, is refer you to the legislative powers that we do actually have. Of course, reservation 43 reserves parts of the powers in respect of anti-social behaviour to the UK Government and that relates specifically to anti-social behaviour injunctions, criminal behaviour orders, dispersal powers, community protection notices, public space protection notices, closure of premises associated with nuisance or disorder, community remedies to anti-social behaviour and so on. Of course, you’ll be aware of the ongoing debate over the reservations that exist and why the Welsh Government’s position was that some of those reservations should not, in fact, have been implemented because they relate directly to other areas of responsibility. But bearing in mind that those are areas that aren’t within our competency at the moment—they are reserved matters—nevertheless, there are actions that Welsh Government has taken through the work of the local authorities, through funding the early intervention pre-court services and restorative approaches, and the fact that we actually provide funding for 500 community support officers who all engage in work in supporting communities. I can’t say the situation will be completely satisfactory because of that division of powers, but those are areas that are obviously going to arise year on year and no doubt will have further consideration in the future. But as things stand at the moment, there are clear reservations in the powers that Welsh Government actually has to deal with some of the issues that you very validly and correctly raise.