1. 1. Questions to the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government – in the Senedd at 1:40 pm on 3 May 2017.
We’ll now turn to spokespeople’s questions and first up this afternoon is the Welsh Conservatives’ spokesperson, Janet Finch-Saunders.
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I’d like to thank my colleague, Mark Reckless, actually—[Interruption.] I thought that would bring a smile—for raising the issue of uncontested seats, because, actually, as voters go to the polls tomorrow, it is quite a serious issue when one considers that 92 councillors, already elected, will face no contest whatsoever. Eight per cent of Welsh local authority seats are uncontested. In Gwynedd, it’s 30 per cent, with 21 of the 74 seats depriving the electorate of a vote. Of course, in Machynlleth in Powys, a seat has gone uncontested for 37 years.
Now, I realise that all political parties have their own part to play, but, as the local government Cabinet Secretary, do you, like me, endorse Professor Roger Scully’s comments that this simply makes a mockery of democracy? How do you intend to address this for the remainder of the Assembly term and allow our electorate to fully engage in the democratic process?
Well, Dirprwy Lywydd, I began my answer to Mark Reckless’s question by expressing my regret that any democratic election doesn’t have a contest and doesn’t offer a choice to the electorate. There are things that Governments are able to do in making elections more attractive, in opening opportunities to people who might be willing to stand, through our diversity in democracy project, and so on, but, in the end, Dirprwy Lywydd, it is political parties that put people up for election. Her own party will put up fewer than half the number of candidates needed to fill the number of councillors that are needed by principal authorities in Wales. So, all political parties in Wales have a responsibility to try to recruit people who are willing to do these difficult jobs, to make them attractive to people. Government has a part to play, but Government is only one part of this jigsaw, and, actually, I believe that political parties themselves are more powerful players.
Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, and, of course, I hasten to mention the number of uncontested community council seats, which run into the hundreds.
Cabinet Secretary, over the past few months and leading up to the local government elections, political parties of all colours—and, as my colleague over there has said, except the independents—have been outlining their manifesto pledges and promises to which the electorate can then hold them to account in the future. The Welsh Conservatives are very proud of the manifesto on which they stand and the pledges therein, but why is it that the party of national Government here in Wales, with responsibility for local government in Wales, has failed to even produce a national manifesto for local government elections?
The Labour Party goes into local elections with manifestos right across Wales, explaining to local electorates exactly what a Labour-controlled authority would offer to them. They do that against the background of a White Paper in which this Government has set out our national policies for local authorities in the future.
I agree with what the Member says—that it is a very important contribution to democracy that all parties make when they put proposals in front of electors and allow those people to make up their minds between the different prospectuses that are there in front of them, and we will do well, I think, to allow people to make those decisions when they go to the ballot box tomorrow.
And finally, Cabinet Secretary, across Wales, local authorities are signed up to private finance initiative schemes with a capital value of £308 million but a total overall cost of over £1.5 billion. A £53 million waste management scheme in Wrexham will cost the taxpayers £450 million, a £28 million lifelong learning centre in Rhondda Cynon Taf will cost over £112 million and the £40 million school project in Conwy will cost my taxpayers over £175 million, a cost that will be reluctantly inherited by the new administration from the previous Plaid and Labour-run council. As we enter a new local government municipal term, what input will you have to ensure that local authorities do not simply get carried away signing up to costly PFI schemes, which then not only place a burden of debt on future administrations, but more so on our tax-paying and hard-working families?
Dirprwy Lywydd, an uninstructed listener would find it difficult to have discerned from that the fact that it was the Member’s party that introduced PFI schemes and enthusiastically put them in front of local authorities to persuade them to do it. There are Conservative local authorities in Wales that have PFI schemes as well. What this Government has done, particularly under the leadership of my predecessor, Jane Hutt, is to provide revenue support to local authorities to support them in conventional borrowing to help them with their twenty-first century schools programme and to help them with some of their housing responsibilities. We will do more during this Assembly term in the field of the flood risk management and, in that way, we will assist local authorities to borrow responsibly, to use the powers that are available to them, and to carry out very important work on behalf of their local communities.
Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Sian Gwenllian.
Thank you. Yesterday, during First Minister’s questions, Steffan Lewis urged for an update on the First Minister’s fair work commission and the leader of Plaid Cymru asked for a sign of support to the principle of scrapping zero-hours contracts in the public sector in Wales. Now, I want to follow that issue up further with you this afternoon. Do you agree with me and with the leaders of your party in England that there is no room for zero-hours contracts in the current public employment sector?
Well, Dirprwy Lywydd, this Government has taken a series of actions within the law as it currently stands to bear down on the exploitation of zero-hours contracts, but we have to do that within the powers that are available to us and within the competence that this National Assembly possesses. When a Labour Government is elected in June of this year, we will be able to do more. I look forward to that very much.
You’ve referred today, and the First Minister yesterday referred, to these issues that there are in Wales in terms of scrapping zero-hours contracts, and you’ve argued in the past that including amendments to abolish zero-hours contracts in the social services Bill could have undermined the Bill, making it open to challenge in the High Court.
But it would have been possible for you to introduce a separate Bill specifically on zero-hours contracts within the care sector—because public services are devolved—but, instead, you have voted against scrapping zero-hours contracts on a number of occasions. So, why haven’t you sought ways and means that would enable you to scrap zero-hours contracts in the care sector, providing respect to these crucial workers?
Well, Dirprwy Lywydd, in the previous Assembly, the Government was not prepared to see a whole Bill put at risk by the directly attention-seeking amendments put down by opposition parties on this matter, and it's completely untrue—completely untrue—to say that no further action has been taken. The Regulation and Inspection of Social Care Bill that I took through the National Assembly provides specific powers to Welsh Ministers to respond to the use of zero-hours contracts in the social care field, and I know that my colleague Rebecca Evans has very active intentions of bringing forward proposals very shortly.
It appears to me that there is a huge gulf between what Labour says and what Labour does. There is a gap between the Labour Government in Cardiff and Labour’s leaders in London, and also a gap between what Ministers in Cardiff Bay say and what Labour councils on the ground are actually doing. I’m talking specifically here about plans to encourage people to shop on their local high streets and the funding allocated to county councils to support parking initiatives—£3 million in total—in light of the agreement between Plaid Cymru and yourself. Unfortunately, Neath Port Talbot council have chosen to use the £133,000 that was to assist the high street to offset overspend on parking, against the specific guidance provided by your Government. Do you agree that this is entirely contrary to the intention and is an entirely ineffective use of this specific pot of funding?
Dirprwy Lywydd, we will keep a very close watch on the way in which the money that has been provided for this purpose and on this experimental pilot basis—the way that it is used right across Wales. I’m comfortable with the fact that different local authorities will choose to use the money in different ways, but I say very clearly to them that I expect every local authority to use that money in a way that has a direct connection with the purpose for which it was provided. We will pursue that matter with all local authorities in Wales over this 12 months.
And the UKIP spokesperson, Gareth Bennett.
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Minister, I have been encouraged by some of your proposed local government reforms. You appear to want more transparency, and perhaps you also accept the idea that more plurality of opinion is sometimes needed. Local residents don’t really benefit from councils being run like one-party states. Would you welcome it if councils were able to scrap the cabinet system and return to the old committee system, which enabled members of all parties to participate in the running of the council?
Well, Dirprwy Lywydd, our White Paper puts the committee system back on the table as something that local authorities can choose should they wish to do so. It’s part of that menu approach that I outlined earlier. I am very comfortable with the idea that what we would seek to do as a National Assembly is to make choices available to local authorities that they can then draw down. I’m very comfortable that the committee system—a modernised, reformed committee system—should be on the list as one of the ways in which those local authorities who would like to do so could choose to organise the running of their business.
Thanks for that answer. The choice does sound like a welcome development. However, I wonder if entrenched parties that have been running their council for some time would be minded to introduce voluntarily such a change of system, but we will see. Localism is a principle that is sometimes championed by your Government. UKIP is also a fan of localism. We want to allow local residents to decide on major planning developments in their area. In other words, we want legally binding local referenda. Is this an example of localism that you would favour?
It’s not. I don’t believe in Government by referendum. I don’t believe that its track record is one that bears examination. I don’t think that it gives rise to effective, holistic decision making. I don’t think it contributes to speed of decision making. It does not form part of the White Paper, and I have no current plans that it should do so.
Okay, thanks for your very clear answer there. We are concerned in UKIP at the recycling targets of your Government. We feel that reduced black bag collections could be harmful to residents. Do you agree that fortnightly collections should be the minimum service provided to residents?
Well, Dirprwy Lywydd, it is for local authorities themselves to decide the systems that best suit their local needs and circumstances. You can’t advocate the advantages of localism in one question and then ask me to set from here in Cardiff the way in which bins are collected in different parts of Wales; it really is not a consistent way of approaching local government. Nor, by the way, do I think the evidence is that different patterns of bin collection have a deleterious impact on recycling.
Thank you very much. We turn to the questions on the order paper. Question 3—Joyce Watson.