The next item on our agenda is the debate seeking the Assembly’s agreement to introduce a Member-proposed Bill on the Autism (Wales) Bill. And I call on Paul Davies to move the motion.

Motion NDM6304 Paul Davies

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 26.91:

Agrees that Paul Davies AM may introduce a Bill to give effect to the information included in the Explanatory Memorandum tabled on 4 May 2017 under Standing Order 26.91A.

Motion moved.

Diolch, Llywydd. And I’m delighted to have the opportunity to present an autism Bill to the Assembly. I’d like to put on record my appreciation to the Commission staff who have supported me in this process, and helped put together the accompanying explanatory memorandum. I’d also like to put on record my sincere thanks to the National Autistic Society Cymru for their outstanding support throughout this process, and to the wider autistic community in Wales, who have made it very clear, time and time again, that they want to see an autism Act delivered, to bring about the necessary changes to autism provision and support in Wales. Well, the Assembly is now in the position to permit or deny the delivery of an autism Bill, and I hope that Members from all parties will listen to my arguments and seriously consider giving me leave to introduce this Bill.

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.

At the very heart of these proposals is to ensure that the provision is there to meet the needs of the 34,000 autistic people in Wales, and also to ensure that autism is given its own statutory identity. The intention of this Bill is to secure consistent and continued provision of all autism services across Wales. At present, the current autism strategic action plan is only in place until 2020, and so there is no certainty of any continued prioritisation of the provision of autism services beyond that point.

We know that in both England and Northern Ireland, there is legislation requiring those Governments to publish an autism strategy for adults, and for adults and children respectively, and I hope that Wales will join both of these countries in establishing legislation on a cross-party basis that works to deliver real outcomes for the autism community. By creating a legal requirement to publish an autism strategy via the proposed autism Bill, it will help to ensure a level of permanence in the delivery of care and support services for people living with autism across the country. This proposed Bill would fundamentally at its core ensure a continued and dedicated focus on the needs of people with autism, regardless of the colour of Welsh Governments in the future. People living in Wales with autism can be sure that regardless of the outcome of Assembly elections, the provision of autism services will continue to remain a solid priority for any incoming Welsh Government. In effect, this Bill will depoliticise the provision of autism services and ensure that it will no longer be a political issue.

I’m sure all Members will agree that in order to provide effective services, health boards and local authorities need to know the extent of demand in their own local areas. I completely accept that diagnosing autism can be very complex and that it will involve multi-agency and specialist assessments that must be carried out by experts in their field of work. Currently, under the Social Services and Well-Being (Wales) Act 2014, local authorities and health boards are required to produce population assessments to assess the levels of need for care and support services in their areas. I understand that one of the core themes of these population assessments is learning disability, which should include autism. However, there are very real concerns that there is a risk that the distinctive needs of people with autism could be subsumed within the broader category of learning disabilities, meaning that the needs of autistic people go unmet once more. Therefore, this Bill is seeking to establish practices, including the collection of reliable and relevant data, on the numbers and needs of autistic children and adults, so that local areas can plan and co-ordinate the delivery of services accordingly.

It’s essential that clear pathways to the diagnosis of autism are established in local areas, and that those affected by autism have access to clear, understandable information about pathways. I sincerely hope that the Welsh Government will publish a best practice diagnostic assessment pathway, including how to access assessment as well as expected waiting times between each stage of the process. It’s so important that parents and families across Wales understand the entire process of care from start to finish, so that they know exactly what they can expect at each stage, and so they are aware of what support is available.

This Bill, if given leave to be introduced, would enable health boards across Wales to be accountable in law for the provision of a clear pathway for adults and children.

Would the Member give way?

Yes, I will in a minute.

We all know that it’s so crucial that pathways are in place for families as soon as they’ve visited their GP, as early intervention is vital in developing the right support for someone diagnosed with autism. It’s my view that any pathways established should include a basic awareness campaign, so that families really understand what services and support are available in their local communities. It’s disappointing that, in some parts of Wales, there is no clear and publicly available information on pathways to diagnosis, and so many people find it very difficult to fully understand exactly the process of diagnosis and assessment. Indeed, perhaps there’s even some scope for users of existing pathways and those living with autism to be involved in the process of creating new pathways.

Of course, this leads on to the wider point that more information must be made available more generally on autism, and I note that the refreshed autism spectrum disorder strategic action plan does highlight that information, guidance and training materials are being developed through the ASD national team, and the ASD Info Wales website. But I believe it’s important that more localised information should be made available at a much more local and community level. I give way to the Member for Mid and West Wales.

I’m very grateful for his consideration to give way. I do support, indeed, the principle behind his Bill. I just want to return to the health board point that he was making. One of the difficulties dealing, at the moment, with strategies and plans is that the health sector has not come fully on board, and is that something that the Bill tries to address?

Absolutely, and that’s why we need clear pathways so that people understand what services and what support are actually available, and health boards then will know what services they should be delivering in their local communities.

Of course, a key aspect of this proposed Bill requires staff working with people with autism to receive autism training, and I know that this is an issue that has been raised time and time again. I want to make it clear that the work undertaken by the Welsh Government and the Welsh Local Government Association recently on this particular front is welcome, and that the measures contained in the proposed Bill seek to supplement, not to replace, these measures. It’s essential that autism training is provided to professionals working with autistic people and, where appropriate, mandated, and that should include training plans.

Members will be aware that one of the difficulties that children on the autism spectrum face is making sure they get the right help at school, and so it’s important that autism is included in initial teacher training and enhanced with continuous professional development. There is scope for more to be done here with regional partnership boards, local health boards and local authorities, and any plans that are produced should also include time frames by which the effectiveness of those plans could be monitored. The introduction of a specific autism Bill could ensure that key professionals such as teachers have compulsory training in autism, which would go some way to improving the outcomes for children with autism as they develop through to adulthood.

It’s absolutely essential—

Mike Hedges rose—

Yes, I will give way.

Thank you very much. Can I say from the start that I fully support this Bill? I may, like some other Members here, including the Member for Mid and West Wales, actually have to leave before the vote, but could I put on record my support for it? Can I also say that I think the one thing about it is that it brings clarity and it brings compulsion? I think that those are two very important things, and the danger is that you have one set of advice notes to be followed by another set of advice notes. Legislation gives you clarity and compulsion.

Well, I’m grateful to the Member for Swansea East for his support, and I agree with everything that he has just said.

Now, it’s absolutely essential to encourage co-operation between agencies and workforce training to best support those with autism in Wales. It’s my view that an autism Bill would work with the additional learning needs Bill and other wider work undertaken by the Welsh Government in this area in order to make sure that that progress is delivered. It’s my specific intention for this Bill to work alongside the work of the Welsh Government, not against it, to ensure that the autism community in Wales receives the support that it deserves. Naturally, the Welsh Government’s refreshed strategic action plan is welcome, and my intention is that my Bill would work alongside that to ensure that that provision is maintained beyond 2020.

The new national integrated autism plan does a lot to provide support, advice and intervention for those living with autism in Wales, and, again, I welcome that work, particularly around tackling diagnosis for adults in Wales. I very much believe that my Bill will help strengthen that work by securing the rights of autistic people with a statutory duty. Now, I appreciate that the Welsh Government will argue that the additional learning needs and educational tribunal Bill will provide additional support to people with autism. However, the additional learning needs Bill includes support for children and young people with autism up to the age of 25. Again, whilst that is welcome, my Bill will seek to provide support to all people living with autism and make sure that services are available to all age groups.

Members will be aware that there are still gaps in the provision for autism, and diagnosis times in some parts of Wales are simply far too long. In my own constituency, some children have faced a wait of up to seven years for a diagnosis, and that is simply unacceptable. Now, Hywel Dda health board did recognise that there was an issue in Pembrokeshire and it committed to putting in resources, which has led to an improvement. However, those specific resources have since been removed again, and, sadly, as a result, the improvements in diagnosis has fallen again. Whilst good practice and responsive services are evident in some areas, the local focus of the strategic action plan has meant that provision has remained inconsistent across Wales. Quite simply, there is a need to ensure that people with autism receive quality support wherever they live in Wales.

Now, I appreciate that some of you have concerns about the implementation and delivery of the autism Act in England, but I want to remind you that we have an opportunity to create a bespoke Bill suited to the needs of the autistic community here in Wales, not anywhere else. It’s important to recognise good practice, whether that’s in England, Northern Ireland or anywhere else, but it’s crucial that we tailor any autism-specific legislation to address the needs of the autism community here in Wales.

Of course, if I’m given leave today to take this Bill to the next stage, I will embark on a significant amount of stakeholder engagement to learn more about the particular needs of the autism community across the country and I will work with the Welsh Government to ensure that those views are appropriately addressed by this Bill. I want to make it clear today that I want to work with the Welsh Government and build on some of the good work we’ve seen in recent months. If the next 13 months prove that the Welsh Government’s ongoing work in this area is resulting in an overwhelming improvement in provision and support for those living with autism here in Wales, then I will be prepared to negotiate with the Government and reconsider the need for legislation in this area based on informed evidence.

I’d also like to take this opportunity to remind Members that the call for an autism Act in Wales has not come from Assembly Members or politicians, but from the autism community itself. This would be a Bill created by the autism community for the autism community, and I believe that we owe them the right to further explore the need for that legislation to be introduced.

This proposed Bill is looking to create a level playing field in access to services for autistic people wherever they live, and will put a statutory duty on local authorities and health boards to deliver those services. I hope that the Welsh Government will be open-minded to this proposed legislation, because all of us in this Chamber want the same thing: to see real and vast improvements to the provision and delivery of services in Wales. Last year, the Minister made it very clear that the door is very much open to autism legislation in Wales, and I sincerely hope that is still the case. I therefore urge Members to support this motion.

Thank you. I call on the Minister for Social Services and Public Health, Rebecca Evans.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I welcome the opportunity to speak in this debate today and to reaffirm the Welsh Government’s strength of commitment to delivering the improvements that people with autism, their parents and their carers tell us they want to see. Since we last debated autism in this Chamber, good progress has been made. The implementation of the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014 has now reached its first anniversary and it is beginning to transform the way that people receive care and support. We published a new strategic action plan for autism, completely in response to what people with autism and their families told us that they wanted to see, and we’re already delivering the priorities in this plan, including investing £13 million in our new national integrated autism service, which is a real game changer in the way that we meet the needs of people with autism.

As I set out in my written statement on autism at the end of November, the Welsh Government has the powers and the policy levers we need to deliver the improvements in services and support that people with autism, and their parents and carers, tell us they want to see. I have said that we’ll keep an open mind to the need for more legislation once we can assess the evidence on the outcomes of the new autistic spectrum disorder strategic action plan and the national integrated autism service. Nonetheless, I am pleased to announce today that I will, in this Assembly term, introduce statutory guidance on autism under the social services and well-being Act to underpin delivery of the strategic action plan. This will ensure that statutory bodies understand their responsibilities towards people with autism and take action to meet those needs. As the First Minister has previously stated in this Chamber, I’m exploring how we can introduce legislation to put the autism spectrum strategic action plan on a statutory footing, and I know that this goes to the heart of what Paul Davies has been speaking about in his speech today, and that Members here and people affected by autism will welcome this.

I’ve already made a clear commitment in the strategic action plan to monitor the progress that we’re making. Since our last debate, I’ve established an ASD implementation advisory group, which met for the first time in March. Membership includes people with autism, their parents and carers, their representative organisations and statutory delivery organisations. This group will advise me on what’s working well and where improvements must be made. Since our last debate, I have committed to publishing an annual report that will focus on the improvements being directly experienced by people with autism and their families and carers. We want to know how their day-to-day lives are getting better and that they are receiving the support that they need.

Parents are rightly concerned about waiting times for assessment and diagnosis. I am pleased to report that, through our Together for Children and Young People programme, we are making £2 million available each year to improve neurodevelopmental assessment services. We have introduced a new 26-week waiting time target from referral to first appointment, and we have already put in place a new, nationally agreed children’s assessment pathway right across Wales, so that families know what to expect when their child is referred for assessment and that there’s consistency wherever they live.

The Cabinet Secretary for health and I have been very clear with health boards about the priority that the Welsh Government puts on meeting the needs of people with autism. We know that many people with autism may not be eligible for social care services, but they still have significant support needs, which, if not addressed early, can escalate. Through the new, all-age national integrated autism service, we will be supporting people living with autism and their families when they need it most. Support and advice will be available from a range of specialist professions, including speech and language therapy, occupational therapy and psychology. There will also be community workers in every local authority to support and assist with day-to-day issues. The service will provide advice and support in relation to things such as managing anxiety, social skills, daily living skills and accessing other services such as healthcare, employment support and housing. So, this service is now becoming a reality. It’s already up and running in Powys, and, over the next few months, it will be rolled out in Cardiff and the Vale, Gwent and Cwm Taf. All of the remaining regions will start developing the service this year, and I look forward to Wales being the first nation to deliver a fully national integrated autism service by 2018, a year ahead of our own original schedule.

In recognition of the importance that I attach to this service, I’ve increased the funding available from £6 million to £13 million, meaning that all regions will receive funding for the rest of this Assembly term, creating a long-term and sustainable service across Wales. This is all very exciting, but I do understand the frustration felt by many families struggling to access the help that they need now. Our plans in Wales are ambitious, and, whilst many are still in the early stages of delivery, there is support available. What’s become clear to me when I’ve met with parents and carers and people with autism, is that families are not always aware of the new services being developed and the resources that they can already access. Our ASD Info Wales website is an essential source of information, and we do need all organisations supporting people with autism in Wales to play their part and work with us in raising awareness of what is on offer.

Many Members will raise the issue of education in this debate. For children and young people with autism to have a positive educational experience, educational settings should provide a learning environment where they feel safe, where they’re understood by their peers, by teaching staff and by non-teaching staff, and are able to learn. Our Learning with Autism programme has proved tremendously popular in school settings, and I can announce today that it is now being adapted for further education and work-based learning settings too. Members will know that the additional learning needs transformation programme is already under way, and is delivering improvements in practice now, which will benefit learners in the current system and in the future system, as proposed by the ALN Bill.

I’d like to take this opportunity to thank all people with autism and their families who are helping us deliver our new ‘Can you see me?’ campaign, to raise awareness of autism in the community. Fronted by Gethin Jones, it is being widely supported across local communities, including by businesses and local facilities such as leisure centres, showing what we can do when we work together and when we put the power in the hands of people with autism and their families.

I believe that we are taking the right action to improve the current system of support for people with autism, but I also recognise that it is early days in seeing the benefits of our new, significant investment. As a result, the Welsh Government will be abstaining on Paul Davies’s proposal today, which means that the draft legislation can move ahead and will be worked on over the next year. At the same time, Welsh Government will continue to move ahead with delivering our social services and well-being Act, our ASD strategic action plan and our national integrated autism service. Paul and I have had a number of very constructive meetings on this issue, and I look forward to meeting him again to work together to further refine those milestones that we will seek to deliver over the coming months to ensure that they’re focused on the outcomes and demonstrable improvements to the lives of people with autism and their families, which we can all agree is what we all want to see. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer.

Thank you very much to Paul Davies for introducing this Bill. Plaid Cymru has been supportive of demands for legislation to safeguard and protect the rights of autistic people in Wales, as well as their families and carers—legislation that would improve the services accessed by people and would improve diagnosis. There will be a free vote on this. I certainly will be supporting the motion to introduce an autism (Wales) Bill is this initial stage, and I expect fellow Members on these benches to also do that, just as they voted in favour of the principle of an autism Bill when we discussed it here in the Senedd back in October.

I have heard the comments made by the Minister that she believes that there are alternative means of introducing the kinds of changes that could be helpful. But, of course, she was aware that there was some disappointment that Labour and the Liberal Democrats had voted against the Bill at that point. Also, to put this on the record, if I may, I understand that one Cabinet Secretary has told a local newspaper in her constituency in Wrexham that she cannot support this today and that she has to abstain because of the fact she is a Minister.

Fe ddyfynnaf o’r erthygl honno:

Fel sydd bob amser yn wir gyda Biliau Arfaethedig Aelodau, meddai, nid yw Ysgrifenyddion Cabinet a Gweinidogion Llywodraeth Cymru yn gallu bwrw pleidlais ac felly byddaf yn ymatal.

Nid yw hynny’n gywir mewn gwirionedd, nac ydy? Oherwydd mae gennyf restr yma o’r holl Weinidogion Llywodraeth a bleidleisiodd yn erbyn Bil Arfaethedig Aelod Dai Lloyd ynglŷn â diogelu enwau lleoedd hanesyddol yng Nghymru.

In terms of what’s being proposed here, the additional learning needs Bill will improve support and provision for individuals in education, but we need something for individuals outwith education too. On occasion, people don’t receive a diagnosis until they are adults, and support needs to be available for people of all ages. I fear that the positive momentum of the Welsh Government’s autism strategy has declined a little. There are cases now across Wales where the strategy doesn’t seem to be working for autistic people and their families, and is leaving some with little or no support, and they then can’t live the life that they would choose and deserve to live. That’s why I agree that we need legislation.

I welcome the objective in the Bill to provide a clear pathway to diagnosis for autism locally, because we know that the provision is inconsistent across Wales and that diagnosis is so important. As one autism advocate told me in north Wales this week:

Ni wnaeth cael diagnosis gael gwared ar fy awtistiaeth yn wyrthiol, ond rhoddodd ddealltwriaeth ddyfnach i mi a chaniatâd i gymryd amser i ddeall fy hun.

I also welcome the objective to gather reliable and relevant data, because, without this information, it’s very difficult for local authorities to plan appropriately for the support required by families and adults on the autistic spectrum. I know that, in the past, an autism group in Anglesey had been worried that funding seemed to be provided on a population basis rather than on a needs basis. We need the data in order to get to the heart of that problem.

I also agree with the objectives on ensuring that staff are given training on autism, and that local authorities and health boards do understand the necessary steps to providing timely support, in order to ensure that individuals and authorities have the understanding to support people on the spectrum. The behaviour of individuals with autism can be complex and difficult to understand, so it’s important that that training is available.

To conclude, one other issue that we in Plaid Cymru certainly want to tackle is the prejudice against people on the autism spectrum. Unfortunately, there is prejudice often from employers and that often holds people back from obtaining jobs that they are more than able to carry out. A recent survey by the autism society showed that only 1 in 10 autistic adults were in employment. That is entirely unacceptable. When we discussed the autism Bill in the Senedd in October, Bethan Jenkins referred to a number of cases of prejudice in schools too, and the impact that that has on children and their parents.

So, to conclude, and in thanking you for bringing forward this legislative proposal, I will ask whether that is something that the Member considered in introducing the Bill—does he feel that the proposed Bill does deal with that issue or is there something further that we could be doing on that particular issue?

I’m pleased to make a brief contribution in this debate today. I was grateful to the National Autistic Society Cymru for meeting with me after the last time we discussed this. Their passion and also their palpable frustration on behalf of the families they support was really powerful and made a very big impression on me. I am also aware from my own casework of the battles that families often face to get a diagnosis and then to ensure that the support they need is in place. It is on that basis that I will be voting for this Bill to proceed today.

I do, as Paul knows, have reservations about the approach of legislating for a particular condition, as I believe that legislation like the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014 and the ALN Bill that’s currently going through the Assembly should, if they are working correctly, deliver for all our citizens on the basis of need. I think we do need to consider as well the implications of such a precedent going forward, as services for people with autism is not the only area where there is an urgent need for service improvement, in my view. I also think that if this goes forward it is essential that we fully consider any unintended consequences of legislating on a particular condition, and that we explore any risk that such legislation may impact on our ability to respond to others on the basis of need, and I am thinking in particular here of other children who need prompt access to CAMHS.

However, I do think that this Bill is very worthy of further consideration and I hope that, if it proceeds today, it will provide a major impetus for service improvements in this area. I welcome the constructive approach taken by Paul Davies and his opening remarks, and also the positive comments of the Minister, who I know has a particular commitment to deliver in this area. What we all want is to ensure that families get the support that they need, and I hope that, if this Bill proceeds today, it will be a major step forward in that direction. Thank you.

On 21 January 2015, I led an individual Member’s debate here that called on the Welsh Government to introduce an autism Act for Wales, and Members voted in favour. Eight months ago, I led a non-partisan debate recognising the need for specific legislation for autism and calling on the Welsh Government to bring forward an autism (Wales) Bill during the fifth Assembly term. Its defeat, on party lines, caused huge distress, and I pray that we can move beyond this today and deliver, at last, for the autism community in Wales. I therefore thank my colleague Paul Davies for bringing forward proposals today to ensure that autism has a proper statutory identity in Wales and that services for people with autism meet their real needs.

Although autism is neither mental health nor learning difficulty, people with autism fall between two stools as there’s nowhere else to go. There are serious concerns that the Welsh Government’s refreshed strategy isn’t robust enough to make the changes we all want to see unless backed by legislation. Placing specific duties on local authorities and health boards would provide greater clarity on the care and support that people with autism can expect. Online resources for the autism community, training films for front-line professionals, and national autism service flowcharts are all well and good, but the autism community won’t receive the support they know they need until there is statutory underpinning and accountability and we move beyond consultation to a direct role for professional and third sector bodies and the autism community in design, delivery, and monitoring.

Attended by autism community members from across Wales, the packed November 2014 meeting of the Assembly cross-party autism group voted unanimously in favour of calling for an autism Act. We heard that the strategy promised to deliver so much, but people are being pushed into further crisis, that people are let down and angry that they have to fight so hard to get the support they need, and that it’s important that people with autism are no longer invisible to services.

Although the Welsh Government have said that not one response to its refreshed autistic spectrum disorder strategic action plan consultation document asked for an autism Act, this wasn’t part of the consultation or questions. In fact, the response by the National Autistic Society Cymru, written with input from their branch members across Wales, said that statutory backing to the strategy, combined with much closer measurement of progress to meet the key aims of the strategy, is vital in securing the change that we all want to see for autistic children and adults and their family members.

I represent a large number of constituents in the autism community fighting the system to get the services needed by them or their loved ones. This was summarised in an e-mail I received this week, which said, ‘My 11-year-old son has been diagnosed with autism and, at this moment, he doesn’t get the backing and support he needs. Your vote for the Bill could make all the difference to his future and others like him.’

As the autistic women’s empowerment project told the cross-party autism group, which I chair, the different presentations of autism in women and girls suggest that the accepted ratio of five boys to one girl should actually be a lot closer, where many females are left undiagnosed, misdiagnosed, or without support. As the parents of several daughters have told me personally, statutory bodies don’t understand that thinking has changed, that autism presents differently in girls, and that many females are unable to access a diagnosis due to stereotyped views, leaving autistic girls and women vulnerable to low self-worth, anxiety, depression, and self-harm. Too often, parents are then forced to pay for private autism assessment. A 2017 letter from the health board said that Flintshire CAMHS, quote, ‘had raised concerns about the rigour and conclusions in a number of private assessments’, and in some cases didn’t accept the diagnosis, and that there was a requirement for these to be in line with NICE guidelines. But when I referred this to the doctor who had carried out these assessments, she responded that she was in fact a contributor to those very NICE guidelines. This single example illustrates a wider institutional problem and why Wales needs an autism Act to meet the needs of children and adults with autism-spectrum conditions in Wales, and to protect and promote the rights of both adults and children with autism in Wales. Thank you, Paul.

I’d like to thank Paul Davies for bringing forward this Bill today. Plaid Cymru stood, in the last Assembly election, on a manifesto that called for legislation to protect and promote the rights of people with autism, their families and their carers, and this proposal would do exactly that. So, I’ll be voting in favour of the proposal, and I hope that it’ll pass today so that the Member can table a Bill with the support of this Assembly.

Like the previous speaker, I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve met parents with despair, who’ve battled to get services for their children and haven’t been able to. Surely it’s the role of Government to make sure that everyone can play a full part in society—too many people are prevented from doing do at the moment. Too many people feel as though our society is not designed to fit them. Now, I accept that a full inbox isn’t always a guide to what’s right and wrong, but it can be an indication as to what is important, of what matters to citizens in Wales. And, like many others in this Chamber, I have received a lot of correspondence, as well as social media lobbying, calling for legislation on this issue. There is a great demand from people with autism and their family members to see autism recognised in specific legislation. I take on board the points that Lynne Neagle made in her contribution. I do think we need to consider unintended consequences, but I do think that this is something that we do need to proceed with.

People understand the differences between services and legislation, and they understand that services are more likely to get the resources and attention that they deserve if there is a statutory duty in place. When legislation like this has been put forward in the past, promises of improved services have been made by the Welsh Government. The proposed Bill could be the vehicle to deliver on those improvements. It could be the way to make sure those kinds of promises are kept. Depending on what happens in later stages, the Bill could ensure that local authorities and health boards draw up strategic plans for services and make them provide sufficient resources. The strategic action plan introduced in 2008 was groundbreaking, and the proposal here recognises that. So, this isn’t about criticising previous Welsh Governments, but there are, no doubt, continuing gaps in provision—as there are, of course, as others have said, with so many other conditions.

The legislation itself should lead to improved services, but the symbolism of legislation is also important. Legislating on this would send a message about our priorities as a country. It would show that we care about all of those children and adults for whom society doesn’t quite fit. It would tell parents, families, and carers that people with autism matter, and that we will recognise and protect their rights.

Approving this proposal would be a strong endorsement from this Senedd, but it must be followed through as well. For too long, people on the autism spectrum have been prevented from living their lives to the full. By backing this legislation, we will be taking just one small step towards a society where everyone has true equality of opportunity. I’m more than happy to add my voice to those others today in urging Members of all parties to endorse the principles of an autism Bill. And I commend the Member for his proposal today and I look forward to supporting it. Diolch yn fawr.

I’d like to thank Paul Davies for bringing this motion, and I support the Member’s motion to introduce an autism Bill. I doubt that anyone here would disagree with the principle that the rights of people with autism should be protected and promoted. The clearest and most effective way to do that is by legislation, and it’s a great pity that the Minister will be abstaining on this motion today. Introducing legislation sends out the message to public bodies and others, including autistic people, that their Government is serious about the needs of autistic people. It is a way to change behaviours in the same way that the Sex Discrimination Act 1975 changed behaviours in the workplace. An autism (Wales) Act would place a focus on people affected by autism and incentivise local authorities and health boards to give greater priority to them. Yes, we need to be wary of legislating for legislation’s sake, but I do not think this is the case here.

The proposed Bill seeks to place on a legal footing strategies and pathways to diagnosis and meeting the needs of autistic people. An autism Bill would complement the additional learning needs Bill, which addresses the support needed in the education system by people with autism and other conditions. Indeed, it seems illogical and contrary to place into law the good principles of the ALN Bill in the education setting, but not to do the same in respect of specific conditions like autism in other settings. After all, children and young people with autism do not leave it at the school or college gate at the end of each day or when they complete education.

However, I am wary of imposing further duties on local authorities and health boards when they may well not have the infrastructure or resources to comply, leading to cuts in other areas. Such duties should therefore be primarily on Welsh Government or, alternatively, upon local authorities and health boards with a corresponding duty on Welsh Government to ensure that local authorities and health boards are given the resources they reasonably need to comply with their new duties. It is vital, particularly where there are limited funds available, to properly apply that funding where it is needed. To do that, you need accurate and reliable data and a proper analysis to map service provision onto likely demand. It should be obvious to everyone here that if you do not possess reliable data about how many people are affected by autism, the likely level of need and the distribution of people with autism across Wales, any service planning is going to be basically down to guesswork.

Legislation would provide the impetus for local authorities and health boards to review and improve their data collection, although I sincerely hope they’re already doing this. Introducing an autism (Wales) Bill would underpin the provision of support for autistic people. I’m sure that people with autism, their friends, families and support workers will be closely watching the result of the vote on this motion at the end of today to see how high on the priority list their Assembly Member puts them. I urge the Members of this Assembly to vote in favour of this motion. Thank you.

Can I add my thanks to Paul Davies for bringing this legislation forward, and for the consensual way in which he’s engaged in developing the proposal to date? I think there is a consensus in this National Assembly that more needs to be done to help families with autism. And can I say that I agreed with much of what Leanne Wood said? I hope that we can all focus on what we can agree on and resist the temptation to score points.

Since we debated this last year, I have met with the National Autistic Society, I’ve met with the integrated autism service, with families, with professionals, with Paul Davies and with the Minister, and I am persuaded that legislation is an appropriate way to go forward. It is clear that the Welsh Government has made progress, and significant money has been invested, and even though there is still some way to go for this to be fully rolled out, I think it is fair to say, at this early stage, that it’s likely that further action is going to be required because of the nature of the systemic culture change that’s required to properly recognise the range of challenges that people with autism face. I’ve heard stories of the delays in referrals for assessment, delays once on the waiting list, delays in decisions, a lack of signposting once diagnosed and, in my own area, concerns of the lack of a paediatric consultant in Hywel Dda health board. Those are all fair and reasonable concerns, and I was pleased to hear the Minister say that she’s willing to put the autism strategy on a statutory footing. I think that is an important start, though I think it is unlikely to be sufficient.

I do, however, have some concerns. I’m nervous about taking an approach where we legislate for each condition. I think Lynne Neagle was right to raise that earlier. That does set a precedent that we should be cautious about. I’m also nervous about picking one particular condition when there are baskets of conditions that are related, that have similar symptoms and that affect a similar number of people, but don’t have a well-organised and vocal campaign group behind them. I must congratulate the National Autistic Society for the campaign that they have run. It has been a campaign fuelled by an understandable frustration, and at times, that has made itself clear. But we are policy makers and representatives, and we have a responsibility to look beyond the interests of those who shout the loudest. There are similar conditions, and the Welsh Government has recognised this principle in its diagnostic strategy. We have, in Wales, a neurodevelopmental diagnostic assessment pathway that acknowledges the principle that there are related conditions and families who are suffering who deserve a similar approach. I think we would be well served to take a similar approach in drawing up legislation. Why should it be that one type of neurodevelopmental condition gets specific legislation and others do not? I think that that is a question that deserves an answer. I had a tweet this morning from somebody who said:

‘None of these conditions come on their own. My son is dyspraxic with a touch of Aspergers. Support; negligible, had to fight all the way.’

I think it would be wrong to have legislation that picks on just one condition and ignores the suffering and the struggle and the pain of families who are also suffering and who also face inadequate services. So, today, I will be supporting taking this legislation forward to the next level, but I do it with the proviso that that support may not be forthcoming for future stages unless we address these concerns that I have. I would say to the points made about abstentions that, when someone abstains, they let something go through. That is not the same as opposing something. In particular, I must single out the Minister, Rebecca Evans, who has a background in this field. Autistic families have no greater friend, in my experience, than Rebecca Evans. There may be a debate in this Chamber about how best we support families, but let there be no question mark that we think families need more support and deserve more support. So, I think it is unfortunate to criticise those who are abstaining today, while the details of this proposal are still fleshed out. So, I hope that we can go forward in a unified fashion. I think that the point that Leanne Wood made is that we need to bring about a culture change that underpins how people with autism matter. That’s the challenge for us all, and the debate now needs to be had on the detail of how we best do that. I shall be voting in favour.

Everyone in this Chamber will agree with the objective of this Bill. This Bill makes provisions for meeting the needs of children and adults with autism spectrum conditions. It protects and promotes the rights of some 34,000 people living with autism in Wales. In fact, many autism sufferers do not receive the support they need to help them to get into life. They face challenges when they try to access employment, education, health, housing and other services in life. This makes it increasingly difficult to lead independent lives for those people. The Welsh Government has recognised this and published its refreshed autism spectrum disorder strategic action plan—it’s a bit of a long one, Deputy Presiding Officer, but that is the plan they have issued. But, many believe that statutory backing is required to secure the change that we all want to see in this country.

An autism Act for Wales would provide that statutory backing, protect the rights of autistic people and raise awareness of complex conditions, which is a necessity here. With a focus on giving autism greater recognition, the law could ensure timely diagnosis through statutory means and regular data reviewing. It would ensure access to services and support for people living with the condition, whether adults or children. An Act would also ensure that public services provided operate with support for autistic people and their families in mind. It would place a duty on society to better accept and understand autism and would provide real opportunity for autistic people to reach their full potential in life.

With a legislative commitment to regularly review the progress of services, people with autism can expect a consistent level of care from service providers. Sadly, this has not always happened in the past. The lack of understanding about autism is not just present among the general public; it also exists among some professionals in our public services. From education to health services, families and adults with autism are not adequately supported as a result of poor understanding. Local authorities are unaware of how many autistic people are living in their areas, which makes it problematic to plan for appropriate support for those families and those people. Parents and carers often go through a distressing experience prior to obtaining a referral due to this lack of understanding.

There are huge inconsistencies in referral-to-assessment waiting times. A consultation conducted by ASD Info Wales found that 19 per cent of families with potential referrals had been referred for assessment within six months of concern first being raised, but 22 per cent waited over four years. The duration of diagnostic assessment also greatly varies, from less than six months for some families to more than two years for others. Some families received a diagnosis from just one clinician—

Will you take an intervention?

Yes, go on then.

Thank you very much for taking the intervention. I share some of the things that you were talking about, and I hope that you will join me in welcoming the statutory footing that the Minister has talked about and the additional funding. I just want to put on the record that I will be supporting this today; I think that Paul has had the right approach in his conciliatory manner, which he always employs when he does things.

Thank you, Joyce.

Some families received a diagnosis from just one clinician, while others were seen by five or more. We need greater training for school staff to be able to support children with ASD. Not all schools are able to accommodate specialist needs. In England, continual professional development exists for teachers in order that they fully understand them. This needs to be done in Wales also.

Transition support from child services to adult services is routinely problematic. Life skills support is scarce, and employment and housing needs are not met. Deputy Presiding Officer, the experience of the autism Act in England shows that real improvement can be achieved in improving the life of autistic people. Joint working with providers can ensure services are better planned and delivered. I believe an autism Act in Wales will do the same. I support this motion today, and I commend it. Thank you.

I think, this afternoon, we’ve seen that, like most Members across the Chamber—Leanne Wood, Lynne Neagle, Mark Isherwood—have highlighted, we all receive many representations from families who have children or siblings living with ASD. They often come into our offices angry, stressed, anxious, exhausted, and sometimes holding back tears, as they explain the hardships they’ve experienced in trying to get a simple request of support for their children or loved one. Last October, during the previous debate, I stressed that it was critical that the Welsh Government and all other public bodies supported these families, who, on a daily basis, face many challenges, and not to allow barriers to exist to that support. These families tackle these challenges to the best of their abilities for their loved ones, and our job is to provide mechanisms that help them and to offer support, and definitely not to increase their hardships. The families keep on telling me of their anger and frustration at still having to argue and demand support for their children or siblings, to get the support and care necessary to help those who are living with ASD, and to progress and improve their well-being.

We are all aware that autism is a lifelong disability that affects how people both perceive the world and interact with others, and I'm pleased that Paul Davies's Bill will actually reflect upon not just the children that we often talk about, but adults as well. I want you to therefore know that the bulk of our casework focuses on children, but let’s not forget the challenges that adults face with ASD. Many have difficulty in the transition period into adulthood, often facing a cliff edge, in regards to the support they’ve had as a child coming to an end at the age of 18.

And, simultaneously, they are looking into the world of work, and the challenges of getting into employment. They don’t want to be a lifelong recipient of welfare benefits. They actually want to get into work, they want to make their own way, and want to improve their lives. However, as they come across the new challenges, they need to understand that we can offer support to both the individual, but also to the employer as well—and Paul Davies mentioned the training. We need to look at expanding the training areas, to consider that aspect as well, so that the transition into adulthood becomes a bit smoother for them, and not so fearful and frightening, which has been for so many in the cases.

And, yesterday evening, I was at the event hosted by Jane Hutt, in the Senedd, where Andrea Wayman of Elite Employment Agency spoke of her work, which is a charity that helps people into employment. And she highlighted one example—how it works for young people; how she had one-to-one support for a young man who had autism, and that one-to-one support allowed him to develop in the workplace, in the work placement, and build the confidence that was required. And, as such, that young person then got into work and gainful employment. That is also an important aspect we must not ignore.

Minister, I know you’ve highlighted the actions being taken by the Welsh Government—the introduction of the 2008 strategy, the update of that strategy, the refreshed delivery plan, and the introduction of the integrated national autism services: £13 million; I did put £7 million, but it said £13 million—all wonderful. They are all positive—there’s no doubt about that—but as Paul Davies highlighted, progress is patchy and slow. It’s essential that we ensure such a strategy is consistently delivered by local authorities and health boards, and is providing the best possible services and support for people living with ASD. And I’m afraid I’m not seeing that on the ground, nor the families. The delivery plan, and the introduction of the integrated service, of the Welsh Government are good, but when families don’t experience that delivery in their communities, then we need to take further action.

I have sought clarification from my own authority on its autism strategy, and the identification of its autism champion, and, unfortunately, that clarity is slow in coming forward. This cannot be allowed to continue, and we must put in place requirements, and therefore, perhaps, the need for legal duties, on public bodies, to both prepare strategies for autism services and have due regard for those strategies when performing their responsibilities.

Now, I’m aware that various pieces of legislation have been introduced that may help. We also saw referrals to the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014 and the additional learning needs Bill, which is currently going through the Assembly. The question that arises is: are they delivering for these families? And will this new Bill support that existing legislation, and improve the plight of these families? And it’s our duty to ask that question. And if we conclude that such a Bill is needed to make the situation better for families on the ground, then we should introduce a statutory obligation that will hold people to account, which will have them act upon it, and which will allow us and families to hold those bodies to account.

And I accept there are other conditions that are important, that should be sitting alongside autism, and perhaps, in the intervening time, Paul Davies may wish to look at whether it is possible to expand the Bill, to introduce a Bill that covers all neurodevelopment conditions. And I’m sure that it’s time that we do that.

Now, this afternoon, I will be supporting this motion and I will be looking forward to the delivery of its ambition, and its offer of improvements to those who live with autism spectrum conditions. It’s important that we legislate for a purpose, and that any legislation will improve the lives of those it targets in Wales. And I will support and look forward to that happening.

I don’t intend to speak for very long, but I firstly just wanted to thank the campaigners for all your hard work, and it shows that people power does really work. And I don’t think you should undermine the fact that campaigners are doing this for a very real purpose, regardless of the fact that there might be other neuromuscular diseases that warrant that law. Why not legislate for those when we do have those campaigners who come and knock on our doors in the future? So, thank you very much for your tenacity and for your perseverance in this.

I also think it’s important to thank Mark Isherwood for chairing the cross-party group for all these years. Sometimes, when we chair cross-party groups, we often do it looking in on ourselves, and we carry on regardless of what other politicians are doing, and I think you deserve to have that praise here today, Mark, as well. Paul, obviously I’m glad that you’re able to take this forward, and I’m sure, as you’ve heard from people here today, that you have that support, and you have my support, of course.

I go back to the quote that I used in the last debate, when I did a cross-party hustings before I was elected again, and the lady in the audience said, ‘I find it harder to fight the system than I do to deal with my son’s condition day-in, day-out.’ And if we have to hear that as politicians, then that is reason, if anything, to vote ‘yes’ today—not to abstain, to let it through, but to vote ‘yes’, as a matter of principle. That’s what I would urge the Government Ministers to do, because that shows the people in this room who have bothered to come down here today, to listen—

You’re playing to the gallery now.

No, I am not playing to the gallery. I’m speaking based on what I’ve experienced in my constituency, and the level of support for this that you can see here today. And if Government Ministers can see that, they should support that Bill.

And in answering your question with regard to other conditions, I believe, having consulted the GP next to me before I stood up, that Asperger’s will be part of autistic legislation.

But what about any other condition?

Well, okay, we can have a back and forth here—

No, you can’t—

[Continues.]—you are supporting the Bill, I’m supporting the Bill. Working on this consensus, perhaps—. I’m not doing it just to get a clap, I’m doing it because I care about the people who have come here today and are bothering to care about these issues. I have somebody on a waiting list for two and a half years for the interim diagnosis of global development delay, waiting in my constituency for that diagnosis. They do not deserve to wait any longer for that diagnosis, and if this legislation can do anything, it is to make that change a reality for them in their everyday lives, not for us sitting making policy—in their everyday lives. So, please support this Bill.

Thank you very much. I call on Paul Davies to reply to the debate.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. And can I thank Members for their contributions this afternoon? We’ve heard some very useful and thoughtful contributions on an issue that is very important, given the sheer volume of people affected by autism in Wales, and I apologise from the outset that I will not be able to refer to everyone’s comments, given the time available to me. Now, we’ve heard some concerns about whether there is a need for primary legislation to tackle the gaps and inconsistency in provision across Wales. I just want to reiterate that this Bill intends to work alongside Welsh Government strategies and policies, not against them.

Rwy’n ddiolchgar i’r Aelod dros Ynys Môn am ei gefnogaeth ac am dynnu sylw at grŵp awtistiaeth Ynys Môn, sydd yn poeni am fel mae’r data yn cael eu casglu a pha mor bwysig yw hynny. Ac i ateb ei bwynt e ynglŷn ag a fyddwn i’n barod i ehangu’r Bil, wel, rwyf eisiau sicrhau fy mod i’n barod i edrych i ehangu’r Bil os yn bosib, a byddaf i yn ymgynghori’n eang gyda chi, a chyda rhanddeiliaid, i wneud yn siŵr bod y Bil yma mor effeithiol ag sydd yn bosib.

I’m grateful to the Member for Torfaen for her support, and I understand her reservations about specific legislation. I want to reassure her that I will review the situation over the next 13 months if sufficient progress is being made. I also understand the Member for Llanelli’s reservations about concentrating on one specific condition, and I want to reassure him that I’m more than happy to look at widening the Bill to include other neurodevelopmental conditions, if possible, and that’s something I will be consulting on, should this Bill be given permission to advance to the next stage.

I’m also grateful to David Rees for his support, and he makes a very valid point, I think, about the support people with autism need in getting into employment, and that’s something, hopefully, this Bill will help with.

Now, we’ve also heard some criticism of the plans brought forward in England, and, so, I’ll say again that we have an opportunity here in Wales to look at other legislatures, learn lessons and create a Bill that is bespoke to the needs of the Welsh autism community. I have no intention of delivering a cut-and-paste job, should this Bill proceed to the next stage. Indeed, my intention is to work closely with the Welsh Government, local stakeholders and those living with autism, to develop a Bill that not only recognises that many people still do not receive the services and support they need, but secures consistent and continued provision for all autism services, regardless of where they live in Wales. And I’m confident that should this proposed Bill proceed to the next stage, I can work with the Welsh Government and the autism community in Wales to establish a piece of legislation that addresses the gaps in provision.

I’m also confident that we can deliver a Bill that meets the needs of those living with autism in Wales and truly ensure that their voices are being heard loud and clear. It’s crucial that we create a Bill that gives autism its own statutory identity, and sends a clear message that the provision of autism services will always be a priority for any Welsh Government, regardless of its political colour or make-up.

And in responding to the Minister, can I thank her for the constructive dialogue we’ve had on this matter, and can I thank her officials for engaging with me? Of course, I’m disappointed that the Minister has indicated the Government will abstain on today’s motion, but I accept that this will still provide an opportunity for today’s motion to go through. However, I’m pleased that the Minister has announced today that the Government will look at putting the action plan on a statutory footing, and I would urge her to take action now so that families living with autism can access the services they need, today and in the future.

Therefore, in closing, Deputy Presiding Officer, today the Assembly has an opportunity to send a strong message to the autism community in Wales that its voice is being heard loud and clear. Calls have consistently been made for an autism Bill, and now is the time for this Assembly to step up to the plate, and give the autistic community the support it deserves. I urge Members to support this motion.

Thank you very much. The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Thank you. Therefore, I defer voting under this item until voting time.

Voting deferred until voting time.