5. 4. Statement: Brexit and Devolution: Securing Wales's Future

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:10 pm on 20 June 2017.

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Photo of Huw Irranca-Davies Huw Irranca-Davies Labour 4:10, 20 June 2017

I, like others, welcome the statement today, but also the document, ‘Brexit and Devolution’, as well. I would say, as well, that we commend once again the fact that here within the Welsh Assembly—within the Welsh Government—there is a willingness to step up and show leadership on things that, to many people, they’d say ‘Why is this important?’ And yet if you read the document that underpins this statement, you can see there is an element here of futureproofing, as well, the UK constitution. It’s not simply a response to what’s currently going on within Brexit and European negotiations; it’s looking ahead a little bit as well. But I want to just test the First Minister a little bit on whether this is throwing a massive boulder in the pool to see what will come out from the ripples that flow from it, or whether some of this is actually achievable imminently as well. We notice that, in the concluding remarks in the report that underpins this, the Welsh Government says:

‘The Welsh Government appreciates that, for many in the UK, some of the ideas set out in this document may appear challenging. Adopting them would amount to a major constitutional reconstruction of the UK, and we do not under-estimate this.’

But it does, both within the statement and within the document, split up those that are wider issues, and longer issues, perhaps, such as the constitutional convention and that wider debate, from the immediate issues that we are currently faced with, such as, as many others have remarked about, the possibility of moving to a council of Ministers—not a JMC; not a strengthened JMC but a council of Ministers and all the mechanisms that would entail.

So, the first question to the First Minister is: how realistic does he think are the prospects of the UK Government adopting the proposals in here for a council of Ministers? Or does he think that there is some measure that is on the way to that, such as a strengthened JMC that would have some of the same characteristics of a council of Ministers? More parity; more esteem between the partners within it; an agreed meaningful agenda that is set by those who participate within the JMC, where decisions are made—in all but, in effect, a council of Ministers as he’s saying. Is this something that he would hope, even short of this, that the UK Government, and the other partners around the UK, would actually accept?

Secondly, can I ask him: in the current political context we have on this side of the general election that we’ve just had, does he think this makes his ambitions within here more or less realisable? Neil has already mentioned that he thinks some of the larger issues such as the constitutional convention may still be ones that are longer-term aspirations. I don’t know, but I’d be interested in the First Minister’s response to that because, again, it seems within here that there are some parts, like the council of Ministers, that are an imperative—an urgent imperative. Others might be longer-term ambitions. But has the current political context changed the possibility of this being made reality?

Thirdly, this—