1. Will the First Minister make a statement on the discussions held between the Welsh Government and the Ministry of Justice in relation to the siting of a new prison at Baglan? OAQ(5)0702(FM)

The Cabinet Secretary for Communities and Children has had discussions with the UK’s prisons Minister regarding the proposed site for development of a new prison at Baglan, and Welsh Government officials are also having ongoing discussions with Ministry of Justice officials regarding the proposal.

Thank you for that answer, First Minister. As you know, the site that’s been identified by the MOJ is within the ownership of the Welsh Government, and lies next door to a housing estate, a residential care home, a GP resource centre, with four surgeries in there, and other businesses on that industrial estate. It also lies within the enterprise zone, which was established when the threat to Tata was raised last year, with the intention being to grow and invest in businesses. Now, I don’t believe that a prison would actually encourage that. For these businesses to grow, they actually want more space. They need larger units of 10,000 sq ft plus. I’ve met with local businesses and they want to grow, they want to stay, but if they see a prison coming, damaging their growth opportunities, they have told me they will leave Port Talbot and possibly even Wales. Will the Welsh Government reject any bid from the MOJ for that land, and instead invest in building these units, which can allow them to grow, and commit itself to that as it has done elsewhere in Wales?

Well, the prison itself will create 500 local jobs and generate £11 million in revenue for the local economy. Could I reassure my colleague that, as somebody who has a prison in his constituency, and who was the ward councillor when the prison was being built in my ward at the time, there were concerns at the time, no question about it, but that those concerns were never realised? We didn’t lose investment. In fact, a brand-new housing estate is being built almost up to the prison perimeter at the moment, and those houses are being sold. So, whereas people will inevitably have concerns about something new in the area, what we know not just from Bridgend, but from elsewhere in Wales, is that prisons do generate jobs and, ultimately, of course, they don’t have a negative effect on the local economy or town.

Following on from that theme, last week, in a question that I asked the Cabinet Secretary, I asked, ‘Why did you let the land go forward for consideration to be used for a prison?’, the Cabinet Secretary said, and I quote

‘the Member’s incorrect in her assertion that I had an option in terms of the land issue regarding the prison.’

Could you please clarify this? Did you offer up that piece of land to the MOJ to consider? If you did not, how has it come about that a piece of Welsh Government land is being considered in the first place? If it is earmarked for potential other usage, why has it not been earmarked for that use before now, for businesses locally, as David Rees has said, and can you confirm that you would be looking at other options in relation to this particular location? I’d also like to ask you: I’ve had an email from a member of staff at Cardiff prison, who said that the staff are already being told that Cardiff prison is going to be closed for shopping development, and that Swansea prison is going to be closed also. Can you confirm this, or have you had any conversations with the MOJ with regard to this?

No, we haven’t had conversations along those lines. If she’s got that e-mail and she feels able to share it, I’d very much like to see it. I’m not sure whether she’s against the prison, or whether she has other questions, but, from our perspective, we know the prison can generate, as I said, 500 jobs, and I speak as somebody with a prison in my constituency. It had no detrimental effect at all on the immediate area, or indeed on the town of Bridgend, or indeed on investment. We know that a prison is needed—another modern prison is needed in the south of Wales. There’s no getting away from that, but, of course, it’s hugely important to work with local people and businesses in order to reassure them, based on what I’ve seen with my own eyes in Bridgend.

First Minister, the Ministry of Justice have indicated that they’ll be holding a two-day event in Port Talbot in order to garner people’s views on the new prison prior to submitting a formal planning application. While this is welcome, we need a more complete public consultation on the proposals. What discussions has your Government had with the MOJ about a more detailed public consultation, and what role will the Welsh Government play in seeking residents’ views on the new prison?

Well, ultimately, the final decision on the exact location of any prison is a matter for the Ministry of Justice and not for Welsh Government. It’s now, of course, a matter for the UK Government to seek planning permission. It’s in the UK Government’s interest to make sure that there is full consultation locally—you can’t give people too much information. I remember what happened in 1995-96, when the Parc prison was built in Bridgend, people did have a lot of questions, and those questions were dealt with by way of a public consultation. And, of course, we see ourselves 20 years on—not without teething troubles, I have to say, when the prison was opened—but, 20 years on, the prison is accepted as part of the community, and has created hundreds of jobs.