5. 4. Statement: Historic Environment Policy and Legislation

– in the Senedd at 3:20 pm on 4 July 2017.

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Photo of Joyce Watson Joyce Watson Labour 3:20, 4 July 2017

We will move on now to the statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure: historic environment policy and legislation. I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure to make the statement—Ken Skates.

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 3:21, 4 July 2017

Thank you, acting Deputy Presiding Officer. A little more than a year ago, the first Wales-only legislation for the historic environment received Royal Assent and became law. Since then, the greater part of the Historic Environment (Wales) Act 2016 has been brought into force, and an impressive body of supporting policy, advice and best-practice guidance has been published. It is an appropriate time now to take stock of what we have achieved and to look ahead at what lies in the future.

The 2016 Act has placed Wales at the forefront of the UK nations in the protection and management of the historic environment. For instance, following the commencement of the relevant provisions at the end of May, Wales alone can claim statutory historic environment records for each local authority area. They provide local authorities, developers and others with the essential information they need to reach well-informed decisions on the management of the historic environment. They also play an important role in helping people to learn more about, and engage with, the local historic environment. The legislation has given these vital records a stable future and their importance has been underscored by statutory guidance for public bodies.

(Translated)

The Llywydd took the Chair.

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 3:21, 4 July 2017

Wales also now boasts the only statutory list of historic place names in the UK, and perhaps even the world. The list included nearly 350,000 entries at its launch in early May. It will raise public awareness of the importance of these elements of our national heritage and encourage their continuing use by individuals and public bodies. Specific instructions on the use of the list in naming and renaming streets and properties have been included in statutory guidance. We are also leading the way in making the processes for scheduling a monument or listing a building more open, more transparent and accountable. Owners and occupiers must now be formally consulted before a designation is made, and, importantly, historic sites are given protection during this period of consultation. Owners have also been given a right to request a review of that decision, which would be undertaken by the Planning Inspectorate. The 2016 Act has also provided a range of new or refined tools to give increased protection to our precious historic assets. For example, we’ve made it easier for local planning authorities to undertake urgent works to deteriorated listed buildings and, crucially, we’ve reduced the financial risk by making any costs a local land charge. We’ve closed loopholes in existing legislation that hindered efforts to prosecute individuals who seriously harmed scheduled monuments through unauthorised works or malicious destruction.

Of course, it is far better to prevent damage in the first place, so we have developed alongside the legislation a new web resource, Cof Cymru—National Historic Assets of Wales, to give owners, occupiers and members of the public free, authoritative information on the description, location and extent of designated and registered historic assets right across Wales.

From the outset of the legislative process, we recognised that the 2016 Act would need to be supplemented by up-to-date planning policy and advice for the historic environment, which reflected not only the provisions of the Act but also the current conservation philosophy and practice. I’ve worked with the Cabinet Secretary for Environment and Rural Affairs in the production of a revised historic environment chapter for Planning Policy Wales, and the first technical advice note, or TAN, for the Welsh historic environment. TAN 24 covers all aspects of the management of the historic environment within the planning system and has replaced a number of outdated Welsh Office circulars. These measures are being complemented by best-practice guidance that will help local authorities, the third sector, developers and owners and occupiers to manage the historic environment carefully and sustainably for the benefit of present and future generations. The first nine titles appeared in May and are available from the Cadw website. They include the management of world heritage sites and historic parks and gardens, and also advice on the preparation of lists of historic assets of special local interest, and, of course, tackling listed buildings at risk.

While we can be justifiably proud of our achievements in the year since the Historic Environment (Wales) Act became law, there is still work to be done. During the passage of the legislation, concern was expressed across the Chamber about listed buildings that had been allowed to fall into disrepair. This led to an amendment that will give local authorities the powers to take additional action to secure the proper preservation of such buildings. However, any regulations that we introduce must be genuinely useful for local authorities and contribute positively to the resolution of the complex challenges presented by decaying listed buildings. So, we have commissioned research that will provide a sound evidence base for our proposals for regulations. This is an opportunity to find a way forward for many buildings that are blighting our communities, but we will need the input of stakeholders across the historic environment sector to shape effective legislation.

The Act’s provisions for heritage partnership agreements also remain to be commenced. These agreements, which have been greeted with enthusiasm in the sector, will support the consistent long-term management of scheduled monuments and listed buildings. They will benefit both owners and consenting authorities by embodying the necessary consents for agreed routine works. Since these agreements will last for a number of years, it is important that the regulations and the guidance are well-founded and practical. We are therefore seeking partners for pilot schemes to inform further progress.

Work to bring the statutory register of historic parks and gardens into effect is well under way. A review of the boundaries of the almost 400 parks and gardens on the existing non-statutory register has been undertaken. All known owners and occupiers of registered historic parks and gardens will be notified of the boundaries of the registered areas during the remainder of 2017 and in early 2018. Once that notification process is complete, the statutory register will be brought into force.

Finally, we come to the Act’s provisions for the advisory panel for the Welsh historic environment. Assembly Members will recall that, at the end of last year, I convened the Historic Wales steering group to undertake a review of heritage services in Wales. Following their recommendations, I asked for a business case examining the options for the future governance arrangements for Cadw, including potential legislative implications. Until I have received that business case and have taken a decision on Cadw’s future, it would be premature to consider the detailed arrangements for the advisory panel.

During the scrutiny of what was then the historic environment Bill, many here voiced their desire to consolidate the legislation for the historic environment to give Wales a single, bilingual body of law accessible and comprehensible to practitioners and the public alike. Therefore, I am delighted that, in recent evidence to the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee, the Counsel General has identified the historic environment legislation as a suitable pilot for the Welsh Government’s ambitious programme to consolidate and codify the law for Wales. Building on the work that we have already done, this represents an exciting opportunity to make Wales the envy of the UK nations.

The activity I have outlined here today will provide a coherent foundation for improved protection and management of the historic environment for generations to come. It recognises the significant contribution that the historic environment makes to the economy, the prosperity of our nation and the well-being of its citizens, and its importance in fostering the quality of place and the pride and resilience of communities.

Photo of Paul Davies Paul Davies Conservative 3:30, 4 July 2017

Can I thank the Cabinet Secretary for his statement this afternoon? As today’s statement makes clear, the greater part of the Historic Environment (Wales) Act 2016 has now been brought into force, and, following the commencement of the relevant provision at the end of May, Wales now has statutory historic environment records for each local authority area. Of course, these records should help introduce greater transparency and accountability into decisions taken on the historic environment, and will be important tools for local authorities and other stakeholders in developing the sustainable management of the historic environment.

Now, the creation of these lists has resulted in increasing the workload of local authorities in this area, and this naturally comes at a cost. Therefore, can the Cabinet Secretary tell us whether there has been any push back from local authorities regarding the preparation of lists of historic assets of special local interest, particularly the cost of doing this? Perhaps he could also tell us what discussions he’s had with the Law Society, and the Welsh Local Government Association, about the revision of local authority search forms, commonly used in conveyancing, to ensure that applications for searches of the various registers are standard procedure and don’t come at any additional cost?

Now, councils have made provisions in their budgets to use some of their new powers to carry out works on a building when the owner hasn’t done so, in both emergency and non-emergency circumstances. Whilst I appreciate that it may be a bit early to ask for an assessment of those powers, given that they only came into force in May, I’d be grateful, however, if the Cabinet Secretary could indicate how the Welsh Government intends to monitor the use of these powers. If these powers are not used, then we need to be clear whether that is because of the financial position that some local authorities may find themselves in. I note that today’s statement highlights that planning authorities can undertake urgent works by making any costs a local land charge. This is a significant step forward in addressing deteriorated listing buildings, and perhaps the Cabinet Secretary could tell us a bit more about these land charges and how they can be used to aid in the recovery of costs associated with urgent work. Indeed, could the Cabinet Secretary provide an initial assessment of these local land charges, and whether they have been effective in addressing urgent works on any neglected listed buildings so far?

Of course, it’s essential that the historic environment Act is supported by the most relevant and updated planning policy advice, and I’m pleased to see the work that has been done with the Cabinet Secretary for Environment and Rural Affairs in developing a revised historic environment chapter for ‘Planning Policy Wales’. The first technical advice note for the Welsh historic environment, TAN 24, provides guidance on how the planning system considers the historic environment during development plan preparation and decision making on planning and listed building applications. However, it’s important that that technical advice note is constantly reviewed to ensure its effectiveness. So, therefore, can the Cabinet Secretary tell us how frequently the planning guidance will be updated, and what impact will this have on planning authorities, particularly in relation to contentious planning applications?

Now, I understand that the Welsh Government will be compiling a statutory register for historic parks and gardens, which will certainly help owners, local planning authorities, and other stakeholders, to look after the sites in a much more informed way. Therefore, perhaps the Cabinet Secretary could tell us a bit more about the review of the boundaries of those parks and gardens in Wales, and provide some timescales on when the Welsh Government intends to see this statutory register brought into force.

Today’s statement also refers to the governance arrangements of heritage services, and I understand that the Cabinet Secretary is still considering action in this particular area. I understand that there is still quite a bit of work that is taking place on this, but perhaps the Cabinet Secretary could give an indication of what timescales he’s considering in addressing governance arrangements, so that Members can better understand when the statutory advisory panel for the Welsh historic environment will be fully established.

Llywydd, can I once again thank the Cabinet Secretary for his statement this afternoon, updating Members on the Welsh Government’s direction of travel in this area? Perhaps the Cabinet Secretary could indicate which parts of the historic environment Act are still yet to come into force, and tell us what sort of timescales are involved in ensuring that all aspects of the Act are fully implemented? And, finally, the Cabinet Secretary is aware of my interest in war memorials, and so perhaps I could tease out some information about how this Act, and the Welsh Government’s general policy in this area, is better protecting war memorials across Wales. It’s so important that guidance is developed to help local authorities and all stakeholders to manage Wales’s historic environment carefully and sustainably for the benefit of present and future generations, and I look forward to scrutinising the Welsh Government in this area to better protect and support our historical sites for the future. Diolch.

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 3:35, 4 July 2017

I’d like to thank Paul Davies for his contribution and for his questions, and, indeed, all Members in the Chamber, for the keen interest that has been shown in the development of this legislation over quite a lengthy period of time of their continued interest in the subject matter.

The historic environment is crucially important, not just to national and community pride, but also to the economy. As I said in my statement, it employs more than 40,000 people, is hugely important to the tourism sector, contributing something in the region of £900 million to the economy annually, and, therefore, it is right and proper that we make the preservation and promotion of the historic environment a priority for Welsh Government.

I’m going to address first of all the question concerning local government capacity, because, of course, this is crucially important in the successful delivery of the provisions within legislation. I do recognise that there are severe pressures on local government, and, in particular, on non-statutory areas of service delivery, such as conservation, not just here in Wales, but right across the UK. And those pressures are likely to continue; they will not improve, given the likely level of expenditure reductions across the public sector. And that’s why I set up the task and finish group, led by Cadw and the Welsh Local Government Association, to consider the resilience and also the capacity of conservation services across Wales, and to identify options for collaboration in response to issues such as the consistency of advice that can be offered, timeliness in making decisions, tackling buildings that are at risk, and also the ability to utilise new powers.

I’m not aware of any pushback from local government to the historic environment Act. However, I am determined to ensure that local government has the tools, expertise, and the capacity to be able to properly and fully protect the historic environment. It’s one of the reasons why I think it’s important that regional delivery is considered with regard to conservation, and that’s something that I know my friend and colleague the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government is keen to pursue and to promote.

I’m in touch on the question of the historic environment records, sometimes conflated with the lists of local interest. The historic environment records are a statutory historic environment record that exists in the UK, the only historic records that exist in the United Kingdom. The four regional Welsh archaeological trusts are discharging the duty to compile and keep these up to date, rather than the local authorities. And those archaeological trusts, which are supported by Welsh Government, I have to say are doing an exceptional job in ensuring that the records are properly maintained and properly kept up to date. They are available through the Archwilio website, which has been established specifically for the historic environment records. And all new records created after 1 April 2016 are available bilingually.

To support this, statutory guidance on historic environment records has been issued for local and national park authorities, and also for Natural Resources Wales, and the Royal Commission on the Ancient and Historical Monuments of Wales will be monitoring the standards and also the service levels of the historic environment records. That’s to ensure that they are maintained and monitored by those trusts that are responsible for them on a consistent basis. It will also include coordinating and validating audits, on a five-year cycle.

The Member also asked about buildings, and, in particular, buildings that are at risk, and whether local authorities are currently utilising the new powers available to them for urgent works. There is no magic bullet for dealing with buildings at risk. But we have supported local authorities in preparing buildings-at-risk registers. And new guidance on tackling heritage at risk, and managing change to listed buildings, was published on 31 May, on the same day the provisions relating to urgent works to listed buildings came into force, giving additional powers to local authorities. But I do recognise that there is still more to do. So, the provision made for the introduction of preservation notices in the historic environment Act I think also gives us the opportunity to develop new measures to address the often intractable challenges posed by decaying listed buildings.

But, in specific regard to urgent works, local planning authorities are often deterred from using the powers that they have by the prospect of legal complications, and, even more so, the prospect of financial loss. The 2016 Act has made the use of urgent works easier by extending it to any listed building, provided that it does not unreasonably interfere with residential use, and it also reduces financial risk by making any costs incurred a local land charge upon which, as the Member identified, interest can be charged until fully recovered.

I think it’s too early to assess whether this has been successful. Plans are in place, Presiding Officer, to collect data from across the provisions in the Act and to inform formal evaluation of the Act. It’s anticipated that it will be five years before sufficient data are available to measure whether the Act and the associated measures have made a difference to the protection and the management of the historic environment. That applies equally to the effectiveness of TAN 24, which the Member also raised.

Then, in terms of Historic Wales and the work of the steering group, my officials are currently developing the business case for change within Cadw. That will consider the options for Cadw’s future, including a consideration of any improvements that can be made to the status quo. But, whatever the outcome, it will also highlight best practice, which will help shape the future of the organisation. I think it’s too early to pre-empt whether any legislative change will be required, but, if it is required, then this, of course, will in turn impact on the timescale for delivery and the advisory body that I spoke about.

The Member also raised questions regarding historic parks and gardens—specifically, when I anticipate the statutory register will be brought into force. Given that Cadw is currently engaging with owners and occupiers, notifying them, and that this work will carry on into the first part of 2018, I anticipate that the register will be brought into force in the summer of next year. In terms of any changes to the boundaries, owners and occupiers of registered parks and historic gardens are being notified in the current year.

I’m going to move on to other provisions that the Member asked about—provisions or measures that have not yet been introduced. Heritage partnership agreements still require work. That’s because we want to make sure that they are developed on the basis of sound evidence. So, we are currently looking for partners that can take part in pilot schemes to ensure that heritage partnership agreements are effective. They have been widely welcomed within the sector, but, in order to make sure that they operate most successfully, I think it’s important that we have the right partners to develop pilot schemes that we can base future agreements on.

Also, there were other areas of work that I outlined where there is further effort to be made in ensuring that the Act can be delivered in full. This work includes some of the points that I raised in my statement concerning powers available to local authorities concerning the disrepair of listed buildings where owners have potentially deliberately allowed listed buildings to fall into disrepair. I outlined how regulations would have to be genuinely useful to local authorities and contribute positively to the resolution of the challenges that are presented to local authorities, and so a sound evidence base is still required for that particular piece of work.

As I’ve said, we also believe that we will need the input of stakeholders right across the historic environment sector to shape effective legislation if it is to be brought forward.

Photo of David Lloyd David Lloyd Plaid Cymru 3:44, 4 July 2017

(Translated)

May I thank the Cabinet Secretary for his statement on the policy with regard to the historic environment? Many points have already been mentioned by Paul Davies, so I won’t repeat those, but I would like to push you further. You say here, on the second page, a matter that you have already mentioned, that you want to make it easier for local planning authorities to deal with the work in an emergency where there are buildings that are listed that are deteriorating in their condition. That’s fine for emergency work, but what about work that is less than urgent, but is still vital to improve a building to return it to a satisfactory visual state, such as the Palace Theatre in Swansea, for example? Vital work is needed. I wouldn’t call it urgent or emergency work, but it does need to be done. There need to be stronger powers for local authorities than currently exist to take action in this regard. I don’t know whether the Cabinet Secretary wants to expand on that: where the need is less than urgent, but is a need regardless. Because some of these buildings can cause local embarrassment.

Turning to what interests me, which is local historic names in this statement, remembering that maintaining historic names is vitally important. As you have already said, Part 4 of the Historic Environment (Wales) Act 2016 mentions,

‘the compilation of a list of historic place names in Wales’.

That’s happened. The website, as you’ve said, lists over 350,000 historic place names in Wales, including the different spellings of those places, and forms of those names, over time. We should welcome that kind of resource, but it doesn’t ensure any legal protection for the historic place names of our country. At the end of the day, it’s just a list. We continue to face a situation where there is no protection for historic place names in Wales. This lack of statutory protection is atrocious when you consider the importance of these names in the context of the history of our nation. Without statutory regulation there’s a danger that many of these historic place names that are listed will become no more than history, as these living names are changed and forgotten.

Perhaps the Cabinet Secretary will remember my attempt to bring forward a Bill on safeguarding historic place names back in March. He’ll remember from the explanatory memorandum to that Bill—and I quote—the importance of maintaining place names as part of the historic environment:

‘Historic place names provide invaluable evidence about social, cultural and linguistic history. The names of settlements, houses and farms, fields and natural features provide information about past and present agricultural practices, local industries, changed landscapes and current and former communities. They provide evidence for the development of a rich linguistic heritage — Welsh, English and other languages.’

Many other languages: Latin, Anglo-Saxon, Scandinavian, French, Norman, English and many more. The Cabinet Secretary will remember the debate that we had in March. There are further examples of the loss of names: ‘Maes-llwch’ in Powys turning in ‘Foyles’; ‘Cwm Cneifion’ in Snowdonia turning into ‘Nameless Cwm’. Under the Historic Environment (Wales) Act 2016, there’s nothing specific to prevent the change of those names. It could still happen. You could argue that the weakness of that Act in safeguarding those names is a threat to a vital component of our historic environment. The March Bill was rejected, as you know, because you voted against it, even though there was strong support in civil society for safeguarding place names, from the Welsh Place-Name Society, Mynyddoedd Pawb, the Welsh Language Commissioner, and so on. You noted, rather, Cabinet Secretary, your intention, as you have announced today, to expand the use of the register of local place names and to introduce guidance alone, not an Act, and I quote from your statement in March, that the,

‘use of the list of historic place names will be specifically considered. In general terms, that guidance will direct these public bodies to take account of the list of historic place names when considering the naming and renaming of streets, properties and other places’.

Consideration alone, before disregarding it perhaps. Note from his comments that only the need to consider would be—

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 3:50, 4 July 2017

(Translated)

I may have to remind the Member that this is an opportunity to question the Cabinet Secretary. Thank you.

Photo of David Lloyd David Lloyd Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

And the question is coming. There is one question that has already been asked, in my defence, Llywydd.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Please ask your question, Dai Lloyd.

Photo of David Lloyd David Lloyd Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

It’s worth emphasising that, because it’s consideration alone that people must undertake of this long list of historic place names, despite the fact that, in other countries, such as New Zealand, there are statutory safeguards in place—there is a law to safeguard Maori names, for example—we don’t have that here. So, the question is: can you, Cabinet Secretary, put your hand on your heart and say that the amendments that you have put forward to this are sufficient to ensure that we are a nation connected to ‘Cwm Cneifion’ rather than ‘Nameless Cwm’, or do you believe that you have done enough to safeguard our historic culture and heritage or not?

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 3:51, 4 July 2017

Can I thank Dai Lloyd for his contribution and his questions? I think he’s absolutely right to raise the issue of buildings that are at risk but not necessarily requiring urgent work. I’ve already outlined why I think that there’s no magic bullet for dealing with buildings at risk, whether in the long term, the medium term or immediately. But local planning authorities for those buildings not requiring urgent works already have numerous powers to assist with tackling neglected buildings, and I would like to see them using these powers more often. For example, section 215 notices under the Town and Country Planning Act 1990 can require an owner to undertake a variety of works to tackle the condition of land or a building that is adversely affecting amenity. There is no reason, in my view, why these can’t be used more widely on listed buildings.

But it’s important to acknowledge that the vast majority, I think—and I’m sure the Member would agree with me—of listed building owners maintain and manage change to their buildings with great care, with pride and with a good degree of sensitivity. I think what’s essential is that we foster, support and encourage all of the owners of listed buildings, who are often our greatest allies in caring for our treasured historic buildings, to be equipped with the knowledge, intelligence and support required to take responsibility for the buildings that they are custodians of. For that reason, we’ve produced nine documents that relate to best practice. The guidance includes, ‘Managing Change to Listed Buildings in Wales’. Further titles are planned, but I do think that through a package of measures within the Act, we will encourage a greater degree of responsibility in civil society for the maintenance of historic assets.

The Member, I know, has a very keen interest, and I do admire his interest, in lists of historic place names. I know that this has been a contentious issue. It’s been an issue that many Members have spoken passionately about on numerous occasions in the Chamber, and I do respect all views on this very important issue. The Royal Commission on the Ancient and Historical Monuments of Wales has already undertaken to compile and maintain the list, and that work is taking place right now. I have to pay tribute to the royal commission for the dedication that it’s shown to this endeavour. Indeed, a full-time member of staff has only just taken up post this week, I believe, at the royal commission, to curate the list, to assist with inquiries and to promote the list and the importance of historic place names. The list is substantial already, containing more than 350,000 historic place names, and it will doubtlessly grow very swiftly as research yields new information. Users of the list are also encouraged to contribute their own information about place names. The aim of this work is to, again, develop a more responsible culture and behaviour across Wales, and a greater degree of respect, not just for the historic environment, but the place names that are attributed to our historic assets.

The Member noted the statutory guidance, ‘Historic Environment Records in Wales: Compilation and Use’. This directs local and national park authorities, and Natural Resources Wales, to take account of the list in naming or renaming when considering the naming and renaming of streets, of properties and of other places. Without the list and those historic environment records, which often underpin the list of historic place names, I do not believe that local authorities, national park authorities or Natural Resources Wales would be in a place to be able to make informed deliberations. Now, thankfully, they will be in a position to make informed decisions. On the best practice guidance on historic place names, well, I’ve asked my officials in Cadw to begin preparing a new publication on historic place names as part of the best practice guidance that complements the Act. It will be aimed at a wide audience to communicate the importance of historic place names to the heritage of Wales, and also to explain what the list offers for those engaged in the management of that heritage.

In terms of the question of legal protection of historic place names, again, this is an issue that has been raised and debated in the Chamber on numerous occasions, and I do respect the Member’s views and the Member’s work in this particular field. Options for the legal protection of Wales’s historic place names were, I believe, thoroughly considered during the passage of the 2016 Act. Formal legal protection would require a consent regime that would be complex, it would be costly and difficult to run, if not impossible to enforce. The approach that we’ve taken—. I do respect Members’ views on this matter, but I equally believe that the approach that we’ve taken is proportionate and, crucially, deliverable. The list will record our rich legacy of historic place names for posterity, it will also raise public awareness of their importance as integral components of our nation’s heritage, with a view, as I outlined, to improving the degree of respect for historic place names in Wales. This, coupled with the statutory guidance issued to public bodies, will, I believe, encourage the continuing use of historic place names in daily life.

Photo of David Rowlands David Rowlands UKIP 3:57, 4 July 2017

I thank the Cabinet Secretary for his statement, and can I say that UKIP Wales welcomes many aspects of this legislation? In particular, that the Government is making the scheduling process for monuments and buildings more open and accountable. We also welcome the proposal to put owners and occupiers at the heart of the consultation process, with a right to request a review of a decision by the Planning Inspectorate. Would the Cabinet Secretary confirm that this appeal process will be independently assessed?

Again, we take note of and support the research commissioned into the complex challenges presented by decaying listed buildings. In this regard, can the Cabinet Secretary please confirm that this research will take into account the views of non-specialists and local opinion, as well as stakeholders and local authorities? You‘ve also mentioned in your statement your intention to set up the statutory register of historic parks, and you’ve given us earlier some timeline with regard to that, but can you also tell us what protection these historic parks will have until that register is in place?

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 3:58, 4 July 2017

Yes. Can I thank the Member for his contribution and his questions? I agree that it’s my fault that the consent regime for scheduling monuments and listing buildings in transparent, it’s open to scrutiny and that it’s transparent, and for that reason we’ve endeavoured to make sure that those who could be affected by the scheduling of a monument or the listing of a building do have the ability to seek a review. Now, it’s absolutely essential in turn, as the Member outlined, that that review process is independent, and so for that reason we would expect the Planning Inspectorate to make a decision in the case of a review to ensure that there is independence, and that there is a safe separation of responsibilities from Cadw.

As far as the consultation on further work that is going to be undertaken is concerned, I think I outlined in my statement that I believe that we need to consult as widely as possible across the sector, and that includes not just experts but also people who could be affected. I think it’s absolutely vital that owners and occupiers of historic buildings have an opportunity to contribute to the debate, the discussion and, ultimately, to legislation if it should be brought forward.

In terms of gardens and parks and the list of historic parks and gardens, we believe there are nearly 400 of these across Wales. The work that’s taken place to date has involved a huge number of owners and occupiers. The aim of the list is to ensure that we have a substantial and exhaustive historic record of all parks and gardens in Wales. Enforcement is a more difficult issue for us to deal with because often enforcement cannot be delivered in a way that is full and fair for owners, given that historic parks and gardens are susceptible to climatic change where they may not responsible for incidents or for degradation of a park or a garden. This was something that was considered—an enforcement regime and protection—but it was thought to be too difficult to manage in a similar way to the proposals for legal protection for historic place names. Actually making sure that something is proportionate and deliverable is essential, but with regard to historic parks and gardens, it was thought that such action may not be deliverable.

Photo of Joyce Watson Joyce Watson Labour 4:01, 4 July 2017

At the end of this week, Cabinet Secretary, I will be travelling to the north of my constituency. In fact, I will be traveling to Harlech. When it comes to arranging meetings or any other events in Harlech, there is a natural place where we settle upon that is mutually convenient and extremely important to the area, and of course I’m talking about Harlech castle. I know that the community, like myself, are hugely grateful for the Welsh Government’s recent £6 million investment in the castle and consequently actually putting it back in good shape, now attracting more than 100,000 visitors last year, which was a 35 per cent increase. So, the extra protection afforded to places like that—historic monuments—is hugely important. It’s not only important to the preservation of the physical structure, but to the well-being of the local area. As you well know, it is a world heritage site and it sits within a nearby conservation area, a site of special scientific interest, and an area of special conservation.

So, the question that I have is: whilst we look after and preserve and put forward Acts that protect those buildings and those areas, you will know that within virtually the same footprint of that site we have the St David’s hotel, which is practically falling down. Some would like it to fall down very soon. I suppose my question is this: whilst we’re putting all the investment into the area, and whilst we’re putting lots of protection into the castle, it is marred by overlooking what is now a derelict building. On top of that, of course, there’s the uncertainty of the college site and also the theatre. But I know, Cabinet Secretary, that you’ve put some money into co-funding some regeneration work, and I wonder whether you’ll be able to tell me how much that investment was. I understand and appreciate that you’re in conversation with Gwynedd Council in trying to solve some of the problems, as well as Snowdonia National Park. But I also wonder whether you’re able to confirm, Cabinet Secretary, if you’re speaking with your colleague the Minister for Lifelong Learning and Welsh Language regarding the future of the college, the theatre and the site, so that when we do put in protection and we do put in some investment that actually does deliver positive change, it isn’t spoiled by those things that it overlooks.

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 4:05, 4 July 2017

Can I thank the Member for her contribution and for her questions? Joyce Watson is a great promoter of Harlech castle, a great promoter of the region, of the town itself, and also a great champion of the natural environment and wildlife tourism, which we also know is a huge contributor to the Welsh economy. I’d also like to pay tribute to the keen interest that Joyce Watson has shown in the regeneration of Harlech, which has been sparked by our considerable investment in the castle.

The Member rightly noted that we have recently approved a not insignificant sum of money to support further regeneration in Harlech. It’s my hope that the local authority will be able to work with local stakeholders, shopkeepers and community leaders and action groups in ensuring that the right projects are identified for priority work, and that, together, some of the big challenges concerning other assets—some might say ‘eyesores’—in the area are actually dealt with speedily, because I do share the Member’s frustration at some of the decay that is apparent not far from the castle into which we’ve pumped millions of pounds.

As a result of the investment that we’ve made in Harlech castle, we’ve seen a huge increase in visitor figures. Visitor numbers last year grew by 11.2 per cent, and the Member is right; they now exceed 100,000 visitors in total. That’s an additional 8,000 paying visitors, which, in turn, is driving investment back into the Cadw site. And it’s worth noting, as well, that the new bridge that was installed at the castle has been recognised—it’s an award-winning bridge, and it’s become something of an iconic feature locally. The Harlech castle improvement project has been successful in receiving the RICS culture and heritage award.

It’s my view that we need to ensure that we reflect on the fact that the castle is part of an incredible natural environment. The Member identified the world heritage site and the national park as being complementary components. We have developed guidance on maintaining and managing world heritage sites in order to contribute to the work of other groups that are preserving and promoting the historic environment, but I do believe that, with specific regard to Harlech, it’s essential that all parties at a very local level and at a local authority level work together, overcome domestic frustrations that may exist, and focus on the single purpose of identifying the challenges, overcoming them, and ensuring that regeneration can be delivered. And Welsh Government is very happy to lend a hand where possible.

Photo of Rhianon Passmore Rhianon Passmore Labour

Diolch, Llywydd. I also would like to welcome very much the statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure. May I take this opportunity to praise the passionate and committed approach to this important area of responsibility that the Cabinet Secretary has always taken?

The Historic Environment (Wales) Act 2016 is an important piece of legislation, and I note in the statement that the 2016 Act is rightly praised for providing a range of new or refined tools to give increased protection to our precious historic assets. These historic assets take in an all-encompassing range of Welsh life, and, in my constituency of Islwyn, the Navigation in Crumlin is an historic, iconic and important Welsh colliery site. It is among the top 10 most endangered Victorian and Edwardian buildings in England and in Wales, and the Navigation contains a number of listed buildings.

I was encouraged to note in your statement, Cabinet Secretary, the new web resource of Cof Cymru—National Historic Assets of Wales. This give owners, occupiers and members of the public free, authoritative information on the description, location and extent of designated and registered historic assets across Wales. I have done some homework and have actually visited this helpful website, and I’m delighted to have clearly been able to see the various listed buildings at the Navigation, which include the winding engine house, fan house, workshops, stores, pithead baths and outbuildings. That’s 11 in total—all of them grade II listed and a significant and historic record for Wales. Would the Cabinet Secretary agree with me that it is imperative that the Welsh Government does all that it can to ensure that these important historic assets tell the story of our nation and are retained for future generations, as highlighted by the historic Memo in Newbridge, now in full and thriving community use? We know that funding demands place great pressure on us all—£1.2 billion swept off the Welsh budget in recent cuts from the UK—and I am heartened to hear of the £250,000 grant from Welsh Government in 2015 for the colliery.

I want to place on record my appreciation to the Friends of Navigation, who are a group of passionate, highly dedicated local volunteers who maintain and manage this site with the aim of restoring the site and buildings, bringing them back into use. This is an aim that I fully share, along with seeing, in the not-too-distant future, the railway station reintroduced in Crumlin in order to open up our Valleys communities.

Cabinet Secretary, how do the principles and purposes of the 2016 Act—a groundbreaking Act, in my view—and the ensuing best principles, guide, safeguard and revitalise our important historic monuments such as the Navigation? It is a colliery site that my grandfather and my ancestors worked within, and which is today a solid but slowly disintegrating legacy of an international, historical, cultural and industrial heritage. Equally, it must play a part in the new Welsh vision for future generations to come.

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 4:11, 4 July 2017

Can I thank Rhianon Passmore for her contribution and pay tribute to her keen interest in this subject since being elected to the National Assembly last year? She’s passionate, clearly, about the historic environment, and in particular the historic assets within her constituency. I’d also like to pay tribute to the volunteers of the colliery. I think they do a magnificent job. Not only are they showcasing one of our most important historic assets in Wales, they are also making sure that it is maintained in a way that, without their efforts, without their hard work, it could potentially crumble, so I’d like to thank them for their dedication and commitment. I’m also very impressed that the Member has taken time to browse our online resource. I’m very pleased that she’s found it an impressive resource, and I’m hoping that she’ll share her experience with others. If it’s a TripAdvisor rating she’s going to give it, hopefully it will be five stars.

I do agree that we have to ensure that we tell the story of Welsh heritage. It’s absolutely essential that we go on interpreting the magnificent past that we have: the story of Wales over the millennia. For that reason, it’s essential that we support the groundbreaking pan-Wales interpretation plan, which I think has been hugely significant in drawing together the many facets of our historic environment and shaping them in a compelling narrative.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 4:13, 4 July 2017

(Translated)

I thank the Cabinet Secretary.