The next item is a debate on a Member’s legislative proposal—Bethan Jenkins. I call on Bethan Jenkins to move the motion.

Motion NDM6349 Bethan Jenkins

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Notes a proposal for a bill to support young carers in Wales.

2. Notes that the purpose of this bill would be to:

a) Provide statutory guidance for schools and local authorities in Wales to provide appropriate support and flexibility for young carers to undertake their care responsibilities during and after school hours;

b) provide guidance for schools to work with young carers to provide flexible pathways to ensure continued participation in education;

c) allow young carers to collect prescriptions on behalf of those in their care, via a Young Carers Card or other mechanism; and

d) ensure that the Welsh Government work with appropriate organisations to introduce respite and support services for young carers in every local authority area in Wales.

Motion moved.

Thank you.

Nid yw bod yn ofalwr byth yn hawdd. Mae’n gyfnewidiol iawn. Un diwrnod, mae bywyd i’w weld yn berffaith, ac ar ddiwrnod arall, mae i’w weld yn chwalu’n ddarnau. Mae gofalu yn ein gwneud yn rhy empathetig, felly rydym yn teimlo poen pawb, ond rydym yn teimlo nad oes neb yn deall ein poen ni. Mae gofalu yn gwneud i ni deimlo ar goll ac yn unig ar adegau. Rwyf am helpu pob gofalwr ifanc, gan gynnwys fi fy hun, i sylweddoli nad ydynt ar eu pen eu hunain ac er ei fod yn achosi gofid, mae bod yn ofalwyr ifanc yn gallu ein gwneud yn gryfach, yn gallach ac yn ddewrach na’r rhan fwyaf o blant ein hoed.

Daw’r dyfyniad hwnnw gan Adele-Caitlin, sy’n 16 oed ac sy’n ofalwr ifanc.

Dylwn ddechrau drwy groesawu’r gofalwyr sy’n oedolion ifanc a chydgysylltwyr prosiect YMCA sydd wedi dod yma i Gaerdydd o Abertawe a Chaerdydd heddiw. Mae’r ddadl hon yn golygu llawer iddynt, oherwydd nid gwleidyddiaeth yn unig yw hyn i ofalwyr ifanc; mae’r trafodaethau rydym yn eu cael yma heddiw yn ymwneud â’u bywydau bob dydd a’u profiadau. Penderfynais gyflwyno’r cynnig hwn ar ôl mynychu digwyddiad gofalwyr ifanc yn y Senedd ychydig wythnosau yn ôl a drefnwyd gan yr YMCA i dynnu sylw at eu prosiect gwych Time for me, sy’n trefnu gwasanaethau cymorth i ofalwyr ifanc ac yn cynnig seibiant a chyngor. Clywais yn y digwyddiad hwn sut y mae gofalwyr ifanc yn falch o’r gofal y maent yn ei roi ac o’u cyfrifoldebau. Maent yn awyddus i allu helpu eu teuluoedd, ond mae’n anodd. Wrth gwrs, yr hyn a glywais gan gymaint o ofalwyr ifanc yw na fyddent yn rhoi’r gorau i’w cyfrifoldebau, ond mae arnynt angen mwy o gymorth, mwy o gydnabyddiaeth i’w rôl a mwy o hyblygrwydd gan ysgolion, gweithwyr iechyd proffesiynol ac eraill wrth iddynt geisio cael cydbwysedd rhwng yr hyn y a wnânt yn y cartref a gweddill eu bywydau.

Rwy’n cydnabod bod yna ofynion o dan Ddeddf Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol a Llesiant (Cymru) 2014 i ddarparu mwy o gefnogaeth, gyda chyfrifoldebau statudol yn cael eu gosod ar awdurdodau lleol. Ond rwy’n clywed gan ofalwyr ifanc a sefydliadau sy’n gweithio gyda hwy nad yw’r fframwaith polisi a’r trefniadau ariannu cyfredol yn ddigon. Mae 11,000 o ofalwyr ifanc yng Nghymru, ac mae’n bosibl iawn fod hwn yn amcangyfrif rhy isel gan fod cymaint o ofalwyr ifanc nad ydynt yn gofyn am, neu’n cael cefnogaeth gan ysgolion, awdurdodau lleol a gweithwyr iechyd proffesiynol. Nid ydynt yn eu hadnabod, a cheir llawer o ofalwyr ifanc, am nifer o resymau, nad ydynt yn camu ymlaen ac yn gofyn am y gefnogaeth y maent ei hangen mewn gwirionedd.

Yn aml, un rhwystr mawr yw diffyg dealltwriaeth. Clywsom fod yna lawer o athrawon a gweithwyr iechyd proffesiynol nad ydynt yn meddu ar yr hyfforddiant perthnasol, yr arweiniad neu’r profiad sy’n angenrheidiol i adnabod gofalwyr ifanc a’u hanghenion penodol, neu sy’n teimlo ei bod yn anodd gwybod sut i ymateb. Mae gormod ohonynt yn methu gofyn y cwestiynau perthnasol wrth ymdrin â sefyllfa lle mae gofalwr ifanc yn mynd â rhiant neu frawd neu chwaer at y meddyg, er enghraifft, neu athro nad yw wedi cael y lefel angenrheidiol o arweiniad. Rwyf wedi clywed am enghreifftiau o feddyg neu weithiwr iechyd proffesiynol arall yn gofyn i ofalwr ifanc, prif ofalwr i riant sydd â chyflwr corfforol neu iechyd meddwl cyfyngus, neu broblem camddefnyddio sylweddau weithiau, i adael yr ystafell pan fo angen i’r gofalwr ifanc hwnnw gael ei lais wedi’i glywed mewn gwirionedd, ac mae angen i’r gweithiwr iechyd proffesiynol glywed am y materion penodol yn y cartref gan y gofalwr ifanc hwnnw. Rwyf wedi siarad â phobl ifanc sydd wedi gofyn i’w hysgolion am hyblygrwydd o ran cadw amser a phresenoldeb oherwydd dyletswyddau sy’n gwrthdaro yn y cartref, a chael eu gwneud i deimlo nad oedd eu ceisiadau yn cael eu cymryd o ddifrif, a bod gofyn i rieni gadarnhau’r hyn roedd gofalwr ifanc wedi’i ddweud wrthynt. 

Ceir stigma penodol o fod yn ofalwr ifanc hefyd, a gwyddom fod llawer o ofalwyr ifanc yn cael eu bwlio. Nododd un arolwg fod 68 y cant wedi cael eu bwlio ar ryw adeg yn eu bywydau. Yn aml, nid yw gofalwyr ifanc yn gweld eu hunain fel gofalwyr mewn gwirionedd, ond yn hytrach fel rhywun sy’n helpu yn y cartref i raddau mwy na phlant eraill. Ymhlith amryw o resymau eraill, mae hyn yn aml yn rhwystr iddynt rhag gofyn am y gefnogaeth honno. Dyna pam rwy’n credu ei bod yn hanfodol ein bod yn cynyddu ein hymdrechion i sicrhau bod gweithwyr proffesiynol ar y rheng flaen yn gallu helpu ac adnabod gofalwyr ifanc. Mae Ymddiriedolaeth Gofalwyr Cymru, ar y cyd â Chymdeithas y Plant, er enghraifft, wedi datblygu pecyn cymorth ar gyfer athrawon ac maent yn gweithredu’r rhaglen beilot ar gyfer Gofalwyr Ifanc mewn Ysgolion yng Nghymru. Cafwyd canlyniadau da a sylweddol i hyn, ond yn amlwg, mae angen gwneud llawer mwy o waith, ac mae angen i ni gael strategaeth ar waith i sicrhau bod canllawiau a hyfforddiant yn cael eu lledaenu mewn modd amserol.

Daw hyn â mi at fy mhwynt nesaf, sef amrywiaeth y ddarpariaeth ledled Cymru. Ar y gorau, gellid defnyddio’r gair bylchog i ddisgrifio’r lefelau o gefnogaeth sydd ar gael. Roedd un awdurdod lleol i’w weld yn gwahardd un gofalwr rhag gwneud cais am asesiad o anghenion gofalwr, ond mae rhai awdurdodau lleol eraill yn llawer gwell am fynd i’r afael â’r problemau y mae gofalwyr ifanc yn eu hwynebu. Mae gofalwyr ifanc yn wynebu rhwystrau eraill, wrth gwrs, yn enwedig materion ymarferol megis casglu presgripsiynau. Ar hyn o bryd, bydd fferyllydd yn rhoi meddyginiaethau i rywun dan oed yn ôl ei ddisgresiwn. Gadewch i mi fod yn glir: byddai’n ddelfrydol wrth gwrs pe na bai angen i ofalwr ifanc fynd i fferyllfa i gasglu meddyginiaethau, a gallai rhai ohonynt fod yn driniaethau ar gyfer camddefnyddio sylweddau, dibyniaeth neu boenladdwyr cryf, neu i drin cyflyrau cronig, ond weithiau bydd angen iddynt wneud hynny, ac mae angen i ni roi mesurau ar waith fel y gallant gael mynediad at y triniaethau hynny mewn modd amserol, ac fel nad yw pobl ifanc yn teimlo eu bod yn cael eu hamharchu. Rwy’n deall bod astudiaethau dichonoldeb ar y gweill ar gyfer cerdyn gofalwyr ifanc a allai helpu gyda hyn a nodi pwy sy’n ofalwyr ifanc, er fy mod yn gwybod, ar ôl siarad â rhai gofalwyr ifanc, y gallent deimlo bod stigma’n gysylltiedig â’r cerdyn hwnnw yn ogystal. Byddwn yn eu hannog i beidio â meddwl yn y ffordd hon, ac i feddwl am hon fel ffordd o helpu pobl i’w deall, i nodi pwy ydynt a gallu symud ymlaen, ac efallai ei gael fel cerdyn gostyngiad mewn siopau ac yn y blaen hyd yn oed, fel y gallwn gynnwys y sector preifat yn y dyfodol.

Hoffwn gloi, gan fod amser yn brin, drwy rannu stori Anna. Mae Anna yn 11 oed ac yn byw gyda’i mam a’i dau frawd, un sy’n hŷn ac un sy’n iau. Mae gan mam a dad hanes o gamddefnyddio cyffuriau ac alcohol, ac mae mam wedi cael diagnosis o afiechyd meddwl sydd ar adegau yn amlygu ei hun ar ffurf newid hwyliau difrifol ac iselder, sy’n golygu nad yw’n gallu bod yn rhiant i Anna na’i brawd iau. Mae hi’n defnyddio cyffuriau ar bresgripsiwn, cyffuriau heb fod ar bresgripsiwn a chyffuriau anghyfreithlon yn rheolaidd—y fam—ac mae gan y brawd hŷn hanes hir o ymddygiad troseddol, mae wedi treulio cyfnodau yng ngharchar, ac nid oes ganddo ddiddordeb mewn helpu’r teulu.

O ran stori Anna, mae hi wedi llwyddo i ymgysylltu â’r YMCA yng Nghaerdydd. Ar y dechrau, roedd hi’n amharod, ac yn ei chael hi’n anodd cyfathrebu, ond erbyn hyn mae hi’n cymryd rhan mewn prosiect ochr yn ochr â’i mam, ac mae wedi canfod bod rhai o’r beichiau a oedd ar ei hysgwyddau wedi cael eu lleihau a bod ei mam bellach yn gallu cymryd rhai o’r cyfrifoldebau gofalu hynny oddi arni. Dyma’r math o berson y mae angen i ni fod yn ei helpu, a dyma’r math o berson y mae angen i ni wneud yn siŵr nad yw’n dioddef yn dawel. Rwy’n credu ei bod yn bwysig fod gennym y Bil hwn ar gyfer gofalwyr ifanc fel y gallwn eu cefnogi, ac rwy’n edrych ar y ddadl hon yn y modd mwyaf cadarnhaol ac yn gobeithio y gall Llywodraeth Cymru glywed pryderon gofalwyr yng Nghymru ac y gallwn fod yn rhan o’r ddadl hon, ac y gall gofalwyr ifanc yma heddiw barhau i fod yn rhan o’r drafodaeth wrth ddatblygu yr hyn y maent ei angen yn eu bywydau bob dydd. Rwy’n credu ei bod yn bwysig i Aelodau’r Cynulliad wrando, ond hefyd i weithredu ar yr hyn y maent yn galw amdano.

Can I warmly welcome this proposal and commend Bethan for bringing it forward and speaking so eloquently and with great passion in this cause? I do think schools are key to supporting young carers and ensuring that their caring roles do not reduce their life chances through poor educational attainment. Often, they will need a lot of flexibility, they will lack a certain structure, and they will need encouragement and further help in meeting the various education milestones set to them.

I would like to commend the whole range of organisations that take an interest in young carers’ work. I think the whole carer sector does have this great ability to campaign under these umbrella organisations, like the carers alliance, and Bethan referred to the Children’s Society, and I’ve just seen the document ‘Supporting young carers and their families: an introductory guide for professionals’. Of course, many professionals will be in contact with young carers without knowing it, and it’s important that we get this sort of general knowledge across there. But in schools I think very specific guidance is appropriate. Schools are—it’s an excellent network into which we can provide this guidance, and I don’t see why all the secondary schools in Wales ought not to have a member of their senior management team have express responsibility for ensuring they have a good young carers policy. The governing body should know about that, and then we should know what sort of action is taken to support and encourage young carers, and then, where necessary, if their education falls behind during a time of crisis or whatever, that there are plans in place to rectify that situation.

So, I think that is very, very important. I also think other very specific ideas like an ID card could be the way forward. Now, there are—and Bethan did hint at this—sensitivities here: it’s not always welcome because it can be seen as a badge you don’t particularly want. But I think we should see it as a way to access certain services and to ensure that professionals realise that this is the accreditation—you don’t have to then check with the parent or guardian or whatever, or it could be used at the pharmacy, for instance, so that prescription drugs could then be collected. So, I think the ID card needs very careful examination.

Now, we’ve been here before, and I hope the Minister will be able to reply to the specifics I have. The previous initiative more or less decided that it should just go ahead on a local authority basis, and whilst I can understand why you’d pilot that, I don’t think there’s been any consistency—I think a lot of local authorities just don’t know it’s out there. I’ve seen no evidence of any best practice being disseminated, so I think, perhaps, a national approach is now appropriate.

Finally, I’ll just echo the need for good respite care—for the person cared for, but also for the young carer, so that they have as fulfilled a life and proper healthy development opportunities whilst they also meet the caring responsibilities, which, most of them, if properly supported, are happily embraced.

I’ll be as generous with other speakers as I’ve been with David Melding. Caroline Jones.

Diolch, Llywydd. I’d like to congratulate Bethan on being selected to take forward a proposal for legislation and to offer my support to her proposals. In Wales, thousands of young people under the age of 16 are caring for relatives with little or no support from their school or from health authorities. Bethan’s legislation recognises the impact that caring responsibilities can have on a young carer’s education and I wholeheartedly support her efforts to ensure education services are flexible enough to maximise the education opportunities of young carers while supporting their caring responsibilities.

Research by the Carers Trust shows us that young carers miss, on average, a quarter of the school year. It is therefore no wonder that young carers have significantly lower attainment rates at GCSE. By encouraging schools and education authorities to recognise the time pressure faced by young carers we can ensure that they are given the necessary educational support and allowed to fulfil their potential. The Carers Trust young adult carers council found that a lack of support at school impacted the mental health of the young carer. These amazing young people give up so much to care for a loved one and the very least we can do is to ensure they don’t face additional barriers.

I will be supporting this legislation and I urge members to add their support to this important piece of legislation. Three in five of us will become carers at some point in our lives and unpaid carers save the NHS billions of pounds each year. Let’s do all we can to make it easier for carers—in this case, young carers—to carry on doing what they do. Thank you. Diolch yn fawr.

I support this motion as well. Children and young people who want to help a parent shouldn’t be denied the right to do so if they freely choose, and they should receive support in that. But I think the question we all need to ask ourselves is: how do we ensure that children and young people do not feel excluded from their parent’s life whilst at the same time preserving their childhood and teenage years that we’d all want them to have?

Since 2006, the number of young carers in Wales has nearly doubled. Children and young people who are also carers are much more likely to miss school frequently, as has been commented just now, and according to Barnardo’s, they’re afraid to ask for help for fear of letting the family down or being taken into care. So, I do support your proposals on this, but what concerns me is that if a child knows that if they don’t help, no-one else will, they will of course provide the help that’s needed. So, what you end up with is children sacrificing their childhood to make good the gaps in care provided to the people they look after. Clearly, we have to do everything we can to help these young carers and essentially, basically, that means doing everything we can to provide the full care that their loved one needs.

The idea of a prescription card is only a useful one because the family have not been provided the correct level of clinical support that sees the adult having the medication delivered. In effect, it’s falling to children and young people to solve a problem that’s been caused by the Government. Besides burdening the young carer with yet another task, it’s reinforcing to the child that they’re not really a child any more: they’re part child and part carer. I’m sure that some young carers have said that such a card would be useful, but that’s only because they’re being faced with problems getting their loved ones medication. The question should not be whether children and young people should have a prescription card, it should be how to ensure that the adult receives their medication, instead of a child or young person feeling that it lies upon them to collect it. There’s a temptation for young people to welcome additional responsibility. It’s part of life that young people want to be older while older people want to be younger, but it’s our role to protect young people from decisions that may not be in their own best interests. If we have rules about the age of someone able to collect medication, it’s for good reason. The risk of harm isn’t reduced simply because we want it to be.

The thing I really don’t like about your motion, Bethan, is that I don’t like the wording in point 2(a) that refers to young people’s care responsibilities. They don’t have the responsibility for care; we do and the state does. The existence of one young carer signals a failure. However, whatever the young carer does day to day for their loved one should remain a choice and never be normalised as a responsibility.

I am also concerned by the perception that guidance is required when it comes to schools. Surely, schools are already providing guidance: young carers are not a new phenomenon. If schools are not providing the support, could it be that they don’t have the resources to properly flag up and support those who need help? If that’s the case, then guidance is not going to make any difference. This Government is the overseer of schools, local authorities and the NHS, and if there are failures, they are on their head. So, I’ll support the motion, but I would like to see a commitment from Welsh Government to at least look at ways of reducing the tasks and care that young carers have to undertake, not just at ways of making it easier for them to provide that care. Thank you.

Thank you. I call on the Minister for Public Health and Social Services, Rebecca Evans.

Thank you, and I’m really glad to have this opportunity today to reaffirm the Welsh Government’s commitment to improving life for our young carers. We’ve long sought to improve the lives of carers in Wales, using the policy, legislative and funding levers at our disposal. Back in 2000, we published our first national carers strategy, and the Carers Strategies (Wales) Measure followed in 2010, further improving support for carers locally. Fifteen months ago, we commenced the implementation of our groundbreaking Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014, bringing with it new and enhanced rights for all carers. So, for the first time, carers have an equal right to assessment and support as those they care for have. They no longer need to demonstrate that they provide significant care in order to have their needs assessed and receive the support available to them. And the Act places a statutory duty on local authorities to proactively inform carers of their right to be assessed, and importantly, on completion of that assessment, the local authority must then put in place arrangements to meet the needs identified and to put a statutory care plan in place. So, legislation working for carers in a way it never has before.

To support the delivery of the enhanced carers’ rights under the Act, the Welsh Government has allocated £1 million of funding this year to health, local authorities and the third sector to work in partnership, and a targeted portion of this funding is ring-fenced specifically to support young carers. And this year I’ve brought carers into the remit of our £60 million integrated care fund, further prioritising this group of exceptional people.

I know that the Cabinet Secretary for Education, like all members of this Government, is committed to supporting all children and young people, including young carers, to achieve their potential, regardless of their background or their personal circumstances. But there is no doubt that young carers face practical difficulties in their education, and, because of their personal circumstances, can experience well-being issues that do need to be identified and addressed, both within and outside the school environment.

Schools are best placed to understand the needs of their learners and to support those needs, and that’s why I’m really pleased to inform Members that the Welsh Government’s been working with the Carers Trust Wales on the development of a step-by-step guide for schools on young carers. This new guidance, published just a few weeks ago, helps to identify and support carers in educational settings as early as possible. I know that education colleagues have promoted this excellent guidance to every school in Wales, and I’d be happy to share it with colleagues.

And, additionally, I’ve approved further funding this year to the Carers Trust Wales to support research into the level of support available to enhance young carers’ well-being in the community. Carers Trust Wales will provide me with recommendations as to how to further support the well-being of young carers, and I look forward to receiving them and considering how best to respond.

I plan to drive further support for young carers through our new carers strategic action plan. My approach to develop the plan is in partnership, listening to what carers, including young carers, tell me that they need. Many excellent organisations have been mentioned during the debate today, and I want to hear from them and from the young carers who have joined us at the debate today. I’ve already met with an inspirational group of young carers to hear about their lives, their problems and their aspirations, and a number of them did feel that young carers ID cards would help. I’ve publicly committed to exploring the provision of ID cards for young carers and have funded Carers Trust Wales to develop a national framework to support the implementation of young carer ID cards. This framework will provide the basis for the expansion of young carers ID cards across Wales. And just to be clear, in answer to David Melding’s question, I’m looking at it at a national level, as opposed to leaving it to local authorities, because having done that up to this point—it hasn’t given the kind of results that we’d have liked to have seen.

The Carers Trust, working with Community Pharmacy Wales, has produced ‘A Carers Guide to Managing Medicines’ for adults and young carers. The Carers Trust is also working with the School of Pharmacy and Pharmaceutical Sciences at Cardiff University to help facilitate pharmacy student placements in order to raise their awareness of carers. To be clear, young carers can already pick up prescriptions for the people they care for, but I do agree that we must raise awareness of this both amongst carers themselves and amongst the pharmaceutical professionals, which is why our new guide is so important.

Our carers provide selfless care for their family and loved ones, day in, day out, and I do recognise the stress that this can cause. Respite provision is important for all carers, but young carers must also be able to access these services. Carers Trust Wales is due to provide me with recommendations with regard to expanding our short break and replacement care provision in Wales. This will include the development of a national approach to respite care, delivering on an important manifesto commitment, and this doesn’t come without financial support.

In May, I announced an additional £3 million of recurrent funding to ensure that local authorities are better able to provide respite for carers in Wales, and this will include and benefit young carers. I’d like to take this opportunity to share with Members that I’ve also committed to the establishment of a ministerial advisory group for carers, and this will ensure equal recognition of carers in line with that of older people and people with learning disabilities. I expect that group to play a key role in monitoring the progress on our delivery for carers. In recognition of the particular challenges facing young carers, and because of the unique perspective that they will bring, I will also be inviting young carers to be represented as members on this group.

So, I hope this reassures Members about the priority that the Welsh Government puts on understanding and meeting the needs of young carers in Wales. I hope it demonstrates that there is exciting work going on, on multiple fronts, through legislation, policy and funding decisions, addressing, but not limited to, issues including education, identification and respite.

I’ll finish by saying that I would be very keen to meet with Bethan Jenkins or any Assembly Member who’d like to help shape the next steps for young carers, particularly at this moment through the new and important work on our carers strategy for Wales. Please be assured that I’ll be considering all of the important points raised during this debate as we move forward. Thank you very much.

Thank you. I call on Bethan Jenkins to reply to the debate.

Thank you to everybody who took part in the debate, and thank you to the Cabinet Secretary for saying that you’ll be willing to meet. I think it’s important that we try and get this right for the carers; they are the most important people in all of this. I would say that the reason why I did bring this was because I feel that there is still a lot that can be done, and without wanting to judge, I think if there was perfection in the system, there wouldn’t be a need for debate here. So, I hope that you’ve heard some of the concerns that I and others have raised, so that we can progress positively. Unfortunately, Caroline, this isn’t legislation; it’s a legislative debate. I would like for it to have been legislation, but perhaps in a future ballot I will be successful, but I’m glad that you’re supportive.

But I’m supporting it.

Yes, definitely, and I think it’s important as well, as Michelle Brown said, that we don’t want to put all the onus on carers, so that they feel pressured and burdened, but we also have to have a balance between what the state provides and what they feel comfortable providing. We want young people to be young people. That’s what they want to do as well, but we have to recognise that people’s lives are complex and they will need to care for those around them. And so, I hope that this is part of a progress of debate. I welcome that young carers will be part of the new group that you’ve announced, and that they can be fully involved in that process.

I will say, though, that people under 16 can’t pick up prescriptions. Over 16, they can, so that’s why I’ve asked Community Pharmacy Cymru if I can have a meeting with them, because young people said to me on that Saturday when I took part in the event that they feel disrespected. They go in to get that drug for a loved one in a very urgent situation, so they need to be respected in that regard. Yes, they’re children, but they have to act in an adult role in that capacity, and so we just have to afford them the same respect as if we were going in to get that prescription, and the respect that they deserve as young carers. I hope this does kick-start the debate, and thank you to everyone who has contributed.

Thank you. The proposal is to note the motion. Does any Member object? [Objection.] I will defer voting under this item until voting time.

Voting deferred until voting time.