– in the Senedd at 2:58 pm on 11 July 2017.
The next item is a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Education on student support in 2018-19 and the publication of the summary of results from the consultation on implementing the Welsh Government’s response to the Diamond report, and I call on the Cabinet Secretary to make her statement—Kirsty Williams.
It is indeed a long title, Presiding Officer, and it’s going to be quite a long statement as well. Presiding Officer, I’m very pleased that, today, we can confirm that we in Wales are able to convert the principles of equity and excellence into radical and rational reforms of student support and higher education funding.
Last November, I published the Government’s response to the final Diamond report and launched a consultation on the implementation of our approach. I am now able to publish a summary report of those consultation responses and confirm the Welsh Government’s position; confirm the package of support that is available for full-time undergraduate, part-time undergraduate and postgraduate students from the start of the 2018-19 academic year; confirm the maximum tuition fee levels that Welsh institutions can charge for full-time undergraduate courses; and highlight the efforts of Welsh universities as our sector confirms it will be the first in the UK to be a living wage sector.
The responses to the consultation were positive about our intention to deliver, with only minor modification, the full Diamond package. I would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone who took the time to respond to the consultation, and to our stakeholders who have been keen to contribute to the development of policies that I believe will be a benchmark for other nations and systems. However, it is clear that there is a job of work to do in communicating the new system. In particular we must reassure parents that the fundamental shift to supporting students with day-to-day costs, rather than post-graduation fee repayment, addresses the very concerns that they often raise. We will need to work closely with the universities, student finance authorities and key advocates on this issue. I will launch a communication campaign to promote the new system of support in the autumn and I would also hope that Members here will take up that challenge. A copy of the summary report of the consultation responses, which also includes confirmation of our final proposals, has been placed in the National Assembly Library.
Having considered the responses to the consultation, and having discussed our proposals with the Student Loans Company and Her Majesty’s Treasury, I am pleased to confirm that, subject to regulations being made, we will be introducing the following packages of support for students who start the first year of their course in the 2018-19 academic year. For full-time and part-time undergraduate students, a new fairer and sustainable system of support will be introduced. Additional support will be available to ensure that students have enough money to meet their day-to-day living costs. Every student will be entitled to support equivalent to the national living wage whilst they study. This will mean that eligible full-time students will receive maintenance support of £11,250 if they study in London and £9,100 per year in the rest of the UK.
Grant support will be targeted at those most in need, although every student will receive a minimum grant of £1,000 regardless of household income. Students from the lowest household income will receive the highest grant: up to £10,250 in London and £8,100 in the rest of the UK. Initial estimates suggest that one third of full-time students will be eligible for this full grant. The average household income for a student in the current system is around £25,000. Under the new system such a student will receive around £7,000 a year in non-repayable grant. For the first time, part-time undergraduate students will receive parity of support for maintenance costs on a pro rata basis to their full-time counterparts.
I would like to thank the Student Loans Company for their hard work, diligence and imagination in getting us to the point where we have been able to deliver this significant programme of reform. I am confident that we have established a strong relationship that delivers for Wales and our citizens.
As I announced previously, we have also accepted the Diamond review's recommendations on support for postgraduate students. This new system of support, which will bring parity of support for postgraduate students, will be introduced in the 2019-20 academic year. However, in recognition that the postgraduate changes will be introduced later than for undergraduate students, I will provide enhanced support in 2018-19, subject to the necessary regulations being made. This will be made up of an enhanced loan of £13,000, which will be available to students wherever they choose to study in the UK. In addition, the Welsh Government will provide funding to Welsh institutions, through HEFCW, to provide additional support for postgraduate students who choose to study in Wales, and it is expected that this will be equivalent to around £4,000 per student.
NUS Wales are to be congratulated for making the case for part-time and postgraduate students, and not just the traditional 18-year-old. It is clear to me that progression into postgraduate study is the contemporary challenge of our seriousness in widening access. It is unfortunate that there has been a 14 per cent drop in Welsh postgraduate taught student numbers over the last decade. As we head with such speed into a future shaped by innovation and high-tech industry, it is our duty to enhance part-time and postgraduate opportunities.
Therefore, and in line with the announcement contained in the UK Government’s budget, we also intend to introduce a postgraduate doctoral loans scheme from 2018-19. Eligible students who are ordinarily resident in Wales will be able to borrow up to £25,000 as a non-means-tested loan. But, just as I’m pragmatic enough to seek advantages of English initiatives when it makes sense to do so, I also know that developments across the border bring other consequences for our operating environment. Wales needs a stable, sustainable and progressive higher education funding settlement that supports students when they need it most, and enables our universities to compete domestically and internationally.
I can therefore confirm that because of the reduction in real terms value of tuition fees, the outlook for Welsh Government budgets, and the financial pressures and relative competitiveness of our universities, we will return to the pre-2012 policy of an inflation-linked maximum tuition fee level for the next three academic years. This, of course, will continue to be paid for via a publicly supported loan system with income-contingent repayments made only after graduation.
Members will know that I have previously set a challenge to universities on the living wage and their sense of civic responsibility. So, having now confirmed that students will receive support equivalent to the national living wage, I am pleased to recognise Universities Wales’s announcement that all Welsh universities will become living wage employers, and they have also confirmed that they will sign up to the Government’s code of practice on ethical procurement and employment. This is a clear demonstration that our education system is based on values of equity, excellence and civic responsibility, and I expect to see further developments in the sector’s commitment to a civic mission over the coming weeks and months.
Presiding Officer, our new progressive and fair system represents a fundamental shift in the way we support students and our institutions. By investing in the success of full-time, part-time and postgraduate students, Wales can and will be the only country in Europe to have taken this huge step forward. Together we can ensure we capture and maximise the potential of all our citizens, and of all corners of our nation.
Can I say thank you to the Cabinet Secretary for giving advance notice of her statement, and for publishing the summary of the responses, as well, to the consultation on the Welsh Government’s position? It’s very timely that this should be made, particularly before the summer recess, because, of course, young people will be wanting to prepare for future academic years, and thinking very much about their future, and I’m grateful that there’s been some clarity provided today over the Welsh Government’s position on a number of issues, particularly around the start of the new regime in 2018. I think it’s fair to say that the Student Loans Company have been working very hard with the Welsh Government to achieve the ambition of being able to introduce the new system of support by that particular date.
Can I welcome, also, the continued recognition that there needs to be absolute parity of support for part-time students with full-time students as well? That is something that, of course, there hasn’t been previously, and I know that many people, including the NUS and other organisations, including HE providers like the Open University, have been calling for that clarity and parity. So, I’m very pleased to see that also.
I also want to welcome very much the support that is going to be in place for postgraduate students. We know that the Welsh Government was very late clarifying its arrangements for this coming academic year in September. It was only February of this year, I think, when you clarified those arrangements, which was completely unacceptable, frankly, for people wanting to make plans about postgraduate study, so it is pleasing to know that there’s been a little bit more clarity, certainly about the 2018-19 situation, and that people can begin to make their plans in respect of that. But I do wonder why it is that the new system of support for postgraduate students is going to be implemented later than that for other students. Why is it 12 months on? You don’t explain that within your statement, and I think it is important to get on the record precisely why that is the case.
I think it should come as no surprise to us that we’ve seen a 14 per cent fall in the number of postgraduates taught in Wales. That is because there has not been any support for them up until this academic year. And, of course, we’ve had that lack of clarity, as I’ve just indicated to you. I know that that’s not all on your watch, Cabinet Secretary, but it is a fact, and therefore it doesn’t surprise me that we’re losing postgraduates—or we have been in recent years. I’m hoping that your announcement today will enable that situation to turn around, although I do believe that it may take some time.
I’m also very much pleased that you’re not just rejecting things that are taking place over the border, but when sensible things happen you are also seeking to emulate them. So, I was very pleased to see that too.
I think it is important to get some stability into the tuition fees situation. I note that you have said that you want to go back to this pre-2012 policy of linking the fees to inflation, but I just wonder, Cabinet Secretary, whether you’ve thought about the potential implications of that, should there be a significant change in fees elsewhere in the UK, either up or down—and I suspect the previous is more likely. But if that is going to be your position for three years, are you still going to be committed to that if there is a significant shift elsewhere, which may, of course, end up disadvantaging Welsh universities?
I noted in the consultation comments that there was a suggestion that the new regime could look at pegging the system of maintenance support, not to the national living wage but potentially to the Living Wage Foundation figure in terms of support. I wonder whether you could clarify whether that was something that you have considered as part of your position; and if you have, why are you not seeking to move towards that over a period of time?
In addition, Cabinet Secretary, I think there are some things that you haven’t referred to, which I think it’s important to get some clarity on. There were many respondents to the consultation that referred to the squeezed middle—these individuals who may be at the margins in terms of the level of income that they have, just over the income threshold perhaps, or those individuals who may have more than one child going through the university system at the same time, and the difficulties and challenges that that might pose for them in terms of supporting their dependants. I wonder if you could say anything as to what your consideration of people in that position might have been, and whether there may be an opportunity to look again at the system of support, so that it recognises the difficulties that those families might be in.
In addition to that, of course, many people have referred to those individuals who might be estranged from their parents and families, and therefore it would be inappropriate to take into account their familial income in order to determine what level of support those individuals might get. You haven’t referred to that at all in your statement today. You haven’t clarified your position on how you intend to ensure that individuals who are estranged from their families might be able to access higher education through this new regime, and it would be helpful if you could give us some clarity on that.
In addition, there was a call from the Children, Young People and Education Committee for you to consider what support you might be able to give to people from underachieving ethnic minorities with low representation and proportion of individuals going to university, and the Gypsy/Traveller community. I wonder whether you might be able to comment on whether there might be specific ring-fenced support that you might be able to make available as a Government to individuals in those situations.
Another group that is disadvantaged under the current system, of course, are the over 60s, who face discrimination in terms of their ability to access support. If they are going to be completing their courses after their sixtieth birthday, there’s no support available for them at all, and I wonder whether you can say whether you are going to do anything to address that discrimination against older people. And, finally, if I may, is a question about bursaries. Again, there were many, many comments in the consultation responses about the availability of bursaries, particularly nursing bursaries, but, of course, I know that you’ve been working with Cabinet colleagues looking at other bursaries that you might be able to extend. I wonder whether you can give any clarity on the longevity of nursing bursaries and what other bursaries you might be considering introducing into the new regime. Thank you.
That is a long list of questions, Presiding Officer, so I’ll try to get through them as quickly as I can. I think the parity between modes of study is what makes this package of support so important and unique, and I believe it will be the subject of other nations looking to see what Wales has done. Indeed, Scotland are already committed to a review of their own system and are looking very closely at what is being done here in Wales. With regard to why the postgraduate programme comes in a year later, that is because, despite the very hard and very genuine work that’s been undertaken in conjunction with Welsh Government and the Student Loans Company, they have not been able to make all the necessary changes in time. So, postgraduate support comes online into the formal system a year later. But you will see from my statement that I was not prepared to leave those postgraduate students dangling. There will be loans available from this new academic year, 2017, addressing the issue that there’s been no support previously and that that has put Welsh students at a disadvantage. I’ve used the earliest opportunity that I could, taking on this job, to address that. But, for postgraduate students in 2018-19, there will be money directed through HEFCW to the Welsh universities to support postgraduate study. Importantly, that’ll be for students who choose to study at a Welsh institution, and I will be looking very closely at the impact that that policy has on what else we might like to do to incentivise students studying at Welsh institutions.
That comes back to the point that you rightly closed on with regard to bursaries. You will be aware that I and the Cabinet Secretary for health have worked very hard to create a bursary system for nurses that rewards those people who study in Wales but also commit to working in the public sector in Wales. We’ll be looking to build on that example. For instance, I’m very keen to look at the issue of ALN pathways into teaching, if there is a commitment to train in Wales and then to stay and work in Wales. We’ll be using this interim year of postgraduate support to look at the evidence and to build on what we might do in that regard.
It is true, Darren, to say that we cannot operate in isolation from decisions that are taken across the border, because of the student flow back and fore. I wish it was different, but I have to deal with the realities that I am in. If there are significant changes to systems of student support and higher education finance across the border, then, obviously, I will take that into consideration when making decisions about situations here. But it would be foolhardy to think that we are not operating in the HE sector across the England and Wales border, and, in fact, competing internationally, because of the nature of the sector.
The living wage—the type of living wage that we are supporting students with is in line with the Diamond recommendations. That’s where we are moving forward in that regard. Independent students—if they are genuinely independent from their families, they will be judged on their own income. They will just need to demonstrate that they are genuinely independent of that. There will be no specific support for aspects of the BME community or Gypsy/Travellers at this stage. Let’s be absolutely clear: this is a system that is universal, based on household incomes. As I said in my statement, we anticipate that one-third of Welsh students, regardless of where they come from in Wales, will be entitled to the full grant payment. Indeed, because of the relatively low wages in Wales, the average Welsh student will be in receipt of a grant of £7,000 per year to assist with their living costs, which they will not have to repay. With regard to the over-60s, the policy’s in line with that pursued in England.
Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for your statement. I don’t think it takes us in an unexpected direction. Much of it confirms what you’ve outlined in the past, but it is good to have that confirmation, particularly as universities and students, of course, have been seeking that clarity in order to make decisions in the ensuing months.
Now, the most significant announcement here is the fact that the maximum for tuition fees is going to go up in line with inflation, and you make that announcement even though it’s something that you’ve rejected in the past, and I’d like to ask you to explain what’s changed, because, only a few months ago, you were saying that that was the policy in the Chamber, and I would like to know what has changed your mind. Because the result of this is that student debt will increase from the appallingly high levels that we’re already seeing, and we know, of course, that the interest paid on these loans is higher than what some of us pay on mortgages at the moment.
This decision is made at a time when the discussion on the whole future of these tuition fees is a very live topic, with Lord Adonis, of all people, saying that tuition fees are ‘politically dead ’, to use his own words—well, clearly not in Wales. Although we had a Labour Party manifesto some weeks ago saying that they would scrap fees, we now have a Labour Government in Wales who are consenting to see an increase in the level of fees year on year. To think that you’re happy to place that additional burden on students is disappointing to say the least. I note and share the disappointment of NUS Wales in that regard, particularly bearing in mind that the IFS have told us that debts are now so high that three quarters of graduates will never fully repay the debt. So, there are broader questions that need to be taken into account here.
So, can I ask you what consideration you gave to alternative options to placing this additional burden on students themselves? Wasn’t there some possibility that it would have been possible to use HEFCW to meet the cost of the more expensive courses instead of placing the burden on the students themselves? And can we have some clarity on when and who will have to pay these additional fees? Is it an increase that will commence as students commence their courses from 2018 onwards, or will this be payable by students who are already in the system and already engaged in their studies? So, some clarity there would be of assistance.
I welcome the commitment to a living wage in our universities, but there is some irony here, because this is one of the sectors with the highest pay gap, and, whilst it is right that we look at the level of those at the bottom of the scale, I also think that we should consider the other end of the scale, too, and that we need to do more to close that gap. I would like to hear your view on that.
You’ve previously mentioned some sort of pilot in terms of financial support to students to ensure that it’s portable and transferable within the UK, but also outwith, in the European Union and beyond. I’d be thankful for an update on that.
There is no reference to the Coleg Cymraeg Cenedlaethol here. I know that there are recommendations contained within Diamond, and I know that there is work happening on that front, but I would like some clarity on when we will hear more about any possible changes in terms of the financial sustainability of ColegauCymru—sorry, ‘Coleg Cymraeg’, I should have said, not ColegauCymru.
And, of course, no statement on Diamond would be complete without me asking about the recommendation to bring plans forward to encourage graduates to remain or to return to Wales, having graduated, to ensure that we get the best value for the Welsh economy from the taxpayers’ investment. Can you give us an update on what further consideration you’ve given to this and when we will have more detail in response to the recommendation contained within Diamond on this issue?
Thank you very much, Llyr, for those questions. With regard to setting fee levels, what I've always said consistently in this Chamber is that I will take a number of factors into consideration when addressing that point. Those factors have included the state of the Welsh Government's own finances, the impact on students, and, indeed, the state of the finances of the sector as a whole. Only earlier today, in First Minister’s questions, we had one of your colleagues talk about the challenges in Bangor, and potential job losses in Bangor. Your colleague sitting next to you, Simon Thomas, is often concerned—rightly so—about job losses in the higher education sector in his own area, and I’ve had to take a number of factors, including decisions taken across the border in England, with regard to fee levels. But what is important, I think, to remember is that fee loans are only payable after graduation, and only once graduates are earning £21,000, and they are indeed written off after 30 years. So, those people who benefit the most economically from going on to a higher education course pay the most back. Welsh students are also unique in the sense that they are eligible for up to £1,500 to be written off the balance of their loans once they start a repayment programme. That is unique to Wales, and it’s my intention to continue to do that.
But let’s be absolutely clear about the work of the NUS with regard to ‘The Pound in Your Pocket’, and the concerns that students have expressed, families have expressed, that it is the day-to-day living costs that are the largest barrier for people going on to study at higher education level and, crucially, staying in higher education. If you look at the situation across the border in England, where there are no grants available—regardless of what your background is, there is no financial help for the day-to-day living costs—it is students from a poorer background who disproportionately drop out after their first year at university. I never—I never—want to see a Welsh student who is capable of sustaining themselves academically on a HE course have to drop out because of day-to-day living costs. We are unique—unique—in the system that we are delivering for Welsh students today.
As regards the Labour manifesto, it’s not for me to defend the manifesto of the Labour Party, but the Welsh Labour manifesto in the Assembly elections last year said that Welsh students would not be put at a disadvantage and they would be better off than English students, and that manifesto commitment, along with our party’s manifesto commitment, is honoured here today. Welsh fees will still be lower at Welsh universities than those Welsh students are paying in English institutions and Welsh students are paying to attend Scottish universities. Let’s be absolutely clear about that.
Llyr, you quoted the IFS. Well, let me be clear about what the IFS has said about student finance, and I quote:
‘bringing back maintenance grants would have the advantage of allowing government to target specific students or courses that have wider benefits to society…the government’— they were referring to Westminster—
‘should put more weight on the latter rather than the former’,
i.e., reducing fees. That’s the approach they should take to making policy. We are doing exactly what independent experts say we need to do in this country.
Incidentally, with regard to inflation linking fees, that’s exactly what your party did when you were in Government here in this National Assembly for Wales. That’s exactly what you did. [Interruption.] It’s exactly what—[Interruption.] It’s exactly what you did. [Interruption.] True, Simon. True. Very true, Simon. It’s very, very true. The fee level—[Interruption.] And I’m sure, Simon, when you were the special adviser in the Government, you did it for the very same reasons that I’m doing it today, to support the sector.
The fees—[Interruption.] The fees—[Interruption.] If I could go on to answer the rest of Llyr’s questions, the fees will apply to the entire cohort from 2018-19. With regard to the living wage, can I say that I am delighted by the announcement of Universities Wales yesterday that Wales will become the first HE sector to move to being a living-wage employer? This is really important, because, up until now, with the exception of Cardiff University and the Open University, that was not the case. This is good news for the lowest-paid workers in the sector working in institutions the length and breadth of Wales, and it is only right that we do so. We cannot advocate for a living wage for students when the people who are cleaning the lecture theatres, the halls of residence and the toilets are not treated in the same way. I am delighted—I am delighted, absolutely delighted—that Universities Wales has made progress in this area when they have not been willing to do so. But there is more to be done—there is absolutely more to be done—with regard to transparency with the higher levels of pay within the institutions, and I continue to have a very productive dialogue with Universities Wales about the importance of this issue, transparency around this issue, and I hope that I will be back in the Chamber before too long to make another positive announcement in that regard. I’ll continue to have those discussions with them.
The Member talks about the future of the coleg. As the Member will know, I removed the budget for the Coleg Cymraeg Cenedlaethol out of the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales this year to protect funding for the very important work that the college does, because I was concerned that because of the strains on HE finance, the work of the coleg might be undermined. So, we’ve taken specific steps to protect that funding in this year, and I await with interest the report of Delyth Evans that will give this Government some independent advice on the future of the coleg, and how the coleg’s role should be developed going forward.
With regard to this issue of getting people to come back to Wales, there are things outside my portfolio that we need to do. We need job opportunities for those people to come back to Wales. We need affordable housing in parts of Wales, so that people can come back and afford to buy houses and raise their families there. But our commitment to this is absolutely clear in the establishment of our interim postgraduate loan measures. Those postgraduate—. Not loans, sorry; everybody can get a loan. Those postgraduate grant measures will only be available to those people who come back to study in Wales. And that’s a commitment and an indication of how I want to be able to use public resources to incentivise those who will come back and contribute. As I said in answer to Darren Millar, we’re already working with Vaughan Gething with regard to nurses in that regard. I’m looking to explore it with regards to additional learning needs and other opportunities.
Thank you for your statement, Cabinet Secretary. I welcome the parity that you’ve announced between part-time and full-time students, and between undergraduates and postgraduate students. I’d like to add my own thanks to those of the Cabinet Secretary to the National Union of Students for fighting the good fight for part-time and postgrad students for so long. I also welcome the proposal that doctoral studies should be supported. However, I fail to see how offering £1,000 per student, regardless of income, is a positive step forward. The Cabinet Secretary may say that we may be taking about a relatively small amount of money here, but that money could be spent elsewhere in the education system, such as making essential repairs to a rural school. The Welsh Government is constantly complaining that they’re not given sufficient funds, yet you can find the cash to give this handout to students from families on higher incomes. Whilst I’m not necessarily against the principle of a student loan system, I’m wary of saddling Welsh students with debt at the beginning of their careers. Graduates are now facing debts at the same level as my first mortgage. Is this really what we want for Welsh students?
I’d welcome the Cabinet Secretary’s explanation of how she is ensuring that students and graduates achieve a quality career service that will help them make the best decisions about which course to study and how much debt to incur. At the end of the day, these people are going to be saddled with an amount of debt. We need to make sure that they understand the level of debt, how long that’s going to take them to pay off, and that that’s actually a proper and worthy investment in their future before they actually incur the debt. Without quality careers advice, we risk Welsh students incurring debt for no good reason, as I said. I do believe the Cabinet Secretary has missed the opportunity to incentivise students to study those subjects such as science and engineering, which are desperately needed in our economy, by providing free tuition and means-tested grants for those subjects.
I’m also concerned about the potential inflation of student costs, which could be caused in terms of rent et cetera, as landlords and others cotton on to the fact that students have access to loans and potentially more money. We saw it happen when student loans were introduced in the 1990s. Rent for student accommodation rocketed for a start. And, so, what is the Cabinet Secretary’s assessment on inflation of costs for students, due to the measures announced today? Thank you.
Presiding Officer, can I thank Michelle for her question? I believe higher education is a joint endeavour, one where the individual benefits, but also we as a society benefit too. And that’s why the universal grant of £1,000, which was recommended by Diamond in his independent review, will be taken forward. This Government believes in the principle of universalism within that progressive system, and that’s why we will fulfil the recommendation by Diamond. It’s incongruous for the Member to argue on one hand that the £1,000 should not be paid, but on the other hand then talk about the issue around student debt and tuition loans. What we do know is that abolishing tuition loans, and not supporting individual student upfront costs, benefits the middle classes and the better-off more. You can’t have it both ways.
The Member is correct, though—and I should have addressed this in answer to Llyr Gruffydd, and I apologise for not doing so, Llyr—about the issue around the interest rates. I am concerned about interest rates, and how they are applied to student loans. And, as a result of that concern, I have written to the UK Government on that issue, expressed my support for a review of the interest rates, and to keep rates as low as possible. And I have made it clear to Jo Johnson, the Minister in the Westminster Government, that we need to work collectively together on this particular issue. So, I’m not forgetting about this point; this is an important point, and we are taking action to try and address this at the UK level.
The Member is also right to talk about careers advice, and I would urge everybody thinking about applying to university to look at the latest longitudinal education outcomes survey. The LEO survey will tell you what the likelihood is of what you studied leading to a job, and the rates of pay that you would get. It makes very interesting reading. And if you do so, I suspect that we will see a rush of students applying for the computer science course in Swansea, because that course leads to high levels of employment, with very good levels of wage. So, you’re right; we do need to make sure that students are getting proper careers advice before they make an application to a university. And teachers who are advising them need to be aware of the plethora of information that there is out there for students, to help them make those choices. Because undertaking a degree course is not to be taken lightly. It’s something that really does need some proper consideration, and looking at the prospects at the end is an important factor to consider.
With regard to subject-specific support, I understand that is UKIP policy. Diamond looked at subject-specific support, rather than a universal system, and he came down on the side of a universal system, and rejected the proposals for subject-specific support.
I thank the Cabinet Secretary.