Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:32 pm on 18 July 2017.
Thank you to the Cabinet Secretary. I know we have met and we have had conversations on these proposals going forward, and I have to say that I’m certainly very supportive of a lot—. There’s a lot of ambition here, and, of course, with ambition and legislation and making it deliverable comes resource, and I fear that you will have resource implications, but I don’t think anyone could actually knock the vision that you seek to move forward with. Obviously, I’ll start off—. I’ll go through the threads, really.
The reform of town and community councils can’t come quick enough. This is a level of democracy that does cost our taxpayer and should be transparent and accountable, and should actually have deliverable outcomes. And, regrettably, on numerous occasions, I’ve received complaints and concerns from residents regarding the openness and transparency at that level, and I am aware that the members on the board, of course, are former AMs: Gwenda Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Thomas, and, of course, we have William Graham. So, I think those are three people who I have every confidence in, going forward.
Uncontested seats are a problem not just in town council seats but also in principal authorities. There were 92 local authority—principal authority—candidates who actually just went in without contest in the last local government elections, and I know that this was raised numerous times in Aberconwy, as to why people were turning up to vote and weren’t aware that no election was going forward, because somebody had just walked into a council seat. So, your main overall aim is about accessibility, allowing people a better opportunity to vote, but I think also, too, we do need to be mindful that people do need candidates that they are then able to vote for, so that’s something that maybe we can work on, going forward.
The consultation on the potential reform of the local government electoral system is interesting, and, again, it’s all about opening up and engaging, improving accessibility to increase voter turnout at local government elections. Who could argue with that?
I do endorse a number of the proposals outlined. We do need to increase flexibility to enable council employees to stand for election as councillors. I know of a situation—and I’ve raised this with the Cabinet Secretary—of somebody who did a four hour a week contract and was unable to actually go forward standing as a council candidate. Clearly, there would only be a conflict of interest once that person was elected, if elected, so we need to look at that.
We need to simplify postal voting. I’m sure other Members—even with Assembly elections or parliamentary, the postal voting system, probably across the UK, but I know in Wales, is very confusing for the elderly, when they have to put it in different envelopes, and, you know, their signatures and everything. I’ve witnessed so many spoilt ballot papers, when people think that they’ve voted correctly. So, I’d like to ask the Cabinet Secretary—you know, you do intend to put more meat on the bone where that’s concerned.
Proxy voting is another one. It’s a method of people being able to vote when they’re not actually present on that day. I know that your plans for electronic voting and having the single electoral register is a good idea, but nonetheless there is that mechanism currently there called proxy voting, and I know whenever I’ve suggested to people not about postal voting, about proxy voting, they have looked at me in some disbelief, not understanding what proxy voting means. I’m not sure the actual word ‘proxy’ is the best way to describe it. So, if you could look to simplifying that process, it’s another mechanism to get people over that line if they want to vote.
I note your proposal for authorities to choose between the electoral systems—first-past-the-post or single transferable vote. I just wonder whether there would be some confusion across the boundaries. Are you actually looking at doing this on a local authority basis, individual basis? Or is this going to be uniform across Wales?
Moving on to directly-elected mayors, which I’ve already made it clear that I’m quite in favour of, in terms of a local authority—not on the regional working basis—in England, it’s a 10 per cent requirement for the referendum. No, it’s not; it’s the other way around: 5 per cent in England, 10 per cent here in Wales. I think, again, if there’s a way perhaps that we could look at bringing that threshold down so that local authorities—or people, the community within local authority areas, can actually maybe go out and—. It’s a better figure to go for, isn’t it, 5 per cent?
I’ve raised this with you before—remuneration of councils across the border is on average about half that of Wales, with councillors representing more than twice the number of constituents. An example: England, an average of £6,893, and they have to represent 8,959. In Wales, they can be on £13,300 and their average is 3,300. So, we do need to actually look at providing value for our constituents and electorate, and there’s a balance there that needs addressing.
Now, reform of principal councils—certainly, I agree and welcome joint working on back-office functions. There’s much good practice, and I discovered some myself only last week. Five Somerset district councils share a central call centre for enquiries and payments. Now, if it can be done over the border, it can be done here. But, of course, because I’ve held this portfolio for quite some time, I’m aware of all the guidance and everything to do with the collaboration agenda, and that was a failed programme for this Welsh Government. So, I’d really be interested in knowing what methods—the stick, the carrot, or a bit of both—you’re going to use that will actually ensure that there is better working together. I do not see it feasible that we are going to still continue to have 22 chief executives, 22 heads of finance, 22 heads of social services. I welcome the integration of health and social care, and there is a model here that you’ve mentioned in your statement, and that should be rolled out, I think, across Wales.
You mentioned flexibility below the three main regional joint governance committees. The north Wales health board, for instance, has often been described as unwieldy and too large. We have a health board there now in special measures. So, if you’re looking to model local government on that basis, then there’s some more work to be done there. Cabinet Secretary, you know you have my support and that of my group for a lot of this, going forward. We will look for the finer detail, and we will scrutinise and challenge where we feel that it may become over-burdensome, confusing for the electorate, and more costly. Thank you.