3. 2. Business Statement and Announcement

– in the Senedd at 2:18 pm on 19 September 2017.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 2:18, 19 September 2017

(Translated)

The next item on our agenda is the business statement and announcement, and I call on the leader of the house, Jane Hutt, to make the statement.

Photo of Jane Hutt Jane Hutt Labour

Diolch, Llywydd. As Members will see, I’ve several changes to today’s agenda. The First Minister will shortly make statements on ‘Prosperity for All—The National Strategy’, and following that a statement on the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill. The Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government will then deliver a statement on the Welsh Government’s policy paper, ‘Brexit and Fair Movement of People’. Finally, the Minister for Social Services and Public Health will make a statement on the tobacco control delivery plan 2017-2020. And business for the next three weeks is as shown on the business statement and announcement found among the meeting papers available to Members electronically.

Photo of Andrew RT Davies Andrew RT Davies Conservative 2:19, 19 September 2017

Leader of the house, is it possible to have a statement from the Cabinet Secretary with responsibility for transport about the improvements on the Heads of the Valleys road, and I use the word ‘improvements’, because obviously when the work is completed it will be a radical improvement on the transport opportunities that businesses have in that particular part of the world. But businesses from my own region recently have been coming to me highlighting severe roadblocks, road tailbacks, traffic jams et cetera in this part of the road network in Wales. This has had a direct impact on their profitability and, indeed, their ability to expand because they are led to believe that there’s been a considerable overrun in the construction, and the time now to finish the work will be considerably longer. I’ve heard examples of between 12 and 18 months longer, and hence that’s why I’m looking for a statement so that we can clarify exactly how the construction work is progressing. Has the project stayed within budget? And, importantly, what confidence can the Cabinet Secretary give to businesses in south-east Wales that work is progressing as scheduled, and that, whilst there’s short-term pain, it is to be endured to a point and the long-term gain will be worth it over time? But, at the moment, many businesses in south-east Wales, and in particular in South Wales Central, feel that they are experiencing the pain factor without any light at the end of the tunnel. If the Cabinet Secretary could give a statement in relation to the progress of the work, that would be hugely appreciated.

Photo of Jane Hutt Jane Hutt Labour 2:20, 19 September 2017

The Cabinet Secretary would be happy to write to Members to update on the timetable. Certainly, having travelled, indeed, on the wonderful new stretch that takes you right beyond Ebbw Vale and seeing again how the investment of European funds—you see the big notice, ‘Funded by the European Union structural funds’, and it is clear that, already, the improvements are making a great difference. But in terms of the last stretch, which was always going to be the most difficult one in terms of engineering, the Cabinet Secretary will update on the latest timeline.

Photo of Julie Morgan Julie Morgan Labour 2:21, 19 September 2017

Can I ask for a statement from the health Minister about any progress that’s been made on setting up the public inquiry into contaminated blood and whether there’s been any contact between the Welsh Government and the Westminster Government about this issue?

Earlier in the month, I was pleased to attend the all-party Westminster group on contaminated blood, chaired by Diana Johnson MP, in order to see if there was any way of getting any unified position between Wales and the MPs in Westminster. In Wales, certainly, the cross-party group, Haemophilia Wales and the Welsh Government are basically all singing off the same hymn sheet: that we want a judge-led public inquiry—a statutory inquiry—under the Inquiries Act 2005, but it seems to be uncertain as to what is actually happening in Westminster. So, I wondered if there could be a statement from the health Cabinet Secretary to tell us what the position is as far as he knows.

Photo of Jane Hutt Jane Hutt Labour 2:22, 19 September 2017

I thank Julie Morgan for that question, and also for updating us in terms of her very active engagement attending the cross-party group meeting in London where, of course, Haemophilia Wales has been very influential in terms of working with organisations that are representing people who have suffered as a result of the contaminated blood. The Cabinet Secretary has made it clear that the inquiry must leave no stone unturned in getting to the full truth of what happened. Vaughan Gething has written to the Department of Health supporting the call for an inquiry under the Inquiries Act 2005, to inspire confidence in those it is seeking to serve. I understand that the UK consultation has been extended to 18 October to unable all those affected to express their views.

Photo of Llyr Gruffydd Llyr Gruffydd Plaid Cymru 2:23, 19 September 2017

(Translated)

I am aware that there is a debate tomorrow, or a policy discussion around getting rid of the community health councils, but the point that I want to raise refers more specifically to the broader consultation processes of this Government. I would be pleased to have a statement from the Cabinet Secretary with responsibility—the finance Secretary, as far as I can see, is responsible for dealing with the public and performance management—just to understand exactly what the formal regimes this Government has adopted are when it comes to various kinds of consultation. What are the standards that the Government expects to meet in such processes and what monitoring measures are in place to ensure that those standards are met?

We have heard, for example, that the community health councils weren’t informed that the White Paper was going to suggest scrapping those bodies when it was published. And when it was asked why there wasn’t a large series of consultation events around the White Paper, they were told that many of those had been held in relation to the Green Paper, but, of course, the Green Paper didn’t propose the abolition of the community health councils, so, clearly, there are questions there about the consultation process. Now, of course, we understand that events have been arranged, but they were arranged at the very last minute, with all sorts of claims or suggestions as to how those have been organised, and all that does is undermine the public’s confidence in the consultation process, but it also undermines the public’s confidence in the final decision when it is actually made.

Now, last year, the north Wales community health council held over 500 no-notice visits in wards in north Wales—far more than any other body doing anything similar. And if Wales is to move towards a model similar to Scotland, which, by the way, has been called a ‘toothless hamster’, then the least we can expect is a thorough consultation, and a considered and fair consultation, and not what has been described to me as what we’re having now, which is a hurried and amateur consultation.

Photo of Jane Hutt Jane Hutt Labour 2:25, 19 September 2017

Well, I think it’s very important, and of course ahead of the debate tomorrow, that we say very clearly—and I know that the Cabinet Secretary would want to say—that all contributions to the consultation are welcomed. It is a White Paper. Consultations will ensure any future legislation is the most effective that it can be, and of course it is important to recognise that proposals in the White Paper are not just about CHCs, although focusing on that, but looking as well in terms of how you can strengthen the voices of people who use health and social care services, which obviously is a key issue in terms of those service users, and also to improve the quality and governance of those services in Wales.

I’m just aware of the fact that an open letter to party leaders has come from the chair of the board of community health councils, and I’m sure many Members have met with community health council representatives over the summer. I think it’s very clear that the response that’s coming ahead of the end of this consultation is that we do need to learn how we can take this forward to ensure that future bodies are independent and can hear directly from people, including hearing directly from people whilst accessing care. These points are being made, of course, by the CHCs themselves. And it is those proposals where those relating to the public voice in the White Paper—those responses are at a high level and we want to ensure that any body that’s set up really represents citizens in health and social care. So, again, these points are all helpful.

Photo of Mohammad Asghar Mohammad Asghar Conservative 2:27, 19 September 2017

Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. Can I just ask for a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for health, please? The first concerns the availability of Orkambi to treat cystic fibrosis sufferers in Wales. In his reply to my written question on 15 August this year, the Cabinet Secretary said this medicine was not available routinely due to its high costs and modest clinical benefits. He went on to say that the All Wales Medicines Strategy Group had not received a response from the manufacturers, Vertex, about a further appraisal. I am now advised that Vertex have made a submission, which is being reviewed by the group. Can I ask for a commitment from the Cabinet Secretary for health that he will make a statement as soon as possible after this review has been concluded so that sufferers of this pernicious disease are kept fully informed about the availability of Orkambi?

Secondly, could I ask when the Welsh Government will be in a position to say whether funding for the Welsh ambulance service’s falls response team initiative will continue, since the pilot scheme ended on 13 March this year? Thank you.

Photo of Jane Hutt Jane Hutt Labour 2:28, 19 September 2017

Thank you for those questions. I will ask the Cabinet Secretary to clarify the position regarding the availability of the funding of the drug, which, of course, is for people with cystic fibrosis, and you’ve had a response in August and I will clarify the position. And also, to look at the outcome, of course, the Cabinet Secretary will want to acknowledge not just the success of the outcome of the pilot in terms of the Welsh ambulance services, but the fact that that now is being taken forward in other parts of the UK.

Photo of Vikki Howells Vikki Howells Labour 2:29, 19 September 2017

Leader of the house, during the summer I was pleased to visit the lunch and fun club based at Penywaun Primary School in my constituency. I was really impressed to see the positive benefits the scheme was having on the pupils who took part, not least in tackling the problem of holiday hunger. Could we have a statement from the education Secretary reflecting on this summer’s scheme, and also updating Members on what lessons the Welsh Government will take forward in future years?

In addition, September is Sepsis Awareness Month, and with sepsis killing 2,500 people in Wales each year, could the health Secretary give us an update on what the Welsh Government can do to make sure that people are aware of this life-threatening condition?

Photo of Jane Hutt Jane Hutt Labour 2:30, 19 September 2017

Thank you, Vikki Howells, for both those questions. On the first question, I think many people have seen the very positive publicity, not just in Wales, but further afield, in terms of the importance of the lunch and fun clubs that have been set up and the investment that we made throughout the summer in terms of administering that scheme. Of course, the focus of the scheme also is about the enriching and educational activities that it offers learners who attend. We piloted that last year. That was published in 2017, in January of this year, and the findings are very encouraging in relation to health, social and educational outcomes. And I know the Cabinet Secretary will want to update on that in terms of this summer’s school holiday enrichment programme.

I think your second point is very important in terms of sepsis. Since 2013, the Welsh Government has and continues to make the reduction of the avoidable harm and mortality caused by sepsis a high priority for the NHS in Wales. We have much more that we want to achieve in terms of the whole-system approach, and we’re pleased that the Wales rapid response to acute illness learning group is looking at how we can introduce systems within our primary and community care settings, as well as our hospital settings, to further enable much earlier potential recognition of symptoms to ensure that we can intervene in the timeliest way possible.

Photo of Bethan Sayed Bethan Sayed Plaid Cymru 2:31, 19 September 2017

As we’ve heard previously today, last week, we all know that the Cabinet Secretary for health released a written statement announcing a Healthcare Inspectorate Wales assessment of the lessons learned desktop review by Abertawe Bro Morgannwg University Local Health Board. I’m not going to go into the detail again, but this was a major breakdown of patient care and protection, and the consequences were severe. Failings were at every level, from the top down, and no-one so far has been held to account for those failings within ABMU. Many of us across the political divide, as well as the British Medical Association, and family members of the lady who was killed by Kris Wade, have asked for an independent inquiry looking at every aspect of this matter, not just an assessment of this flawed internal desktop report by the ABMU, which has already had a conflict of interest in this regard.

The remit that I’ve seen—. Although the First Minister says today that there was no remit, the remit I’ve seen from the health Secretary does not go far enough. We need to ensure that everybody who made complaints at the time are heard, that the victims are heard, and that the family of those who were affected are heard also. We need to find accountability in this process, and we have to have more information to hand as Assembly Members. So, I was very, very disappointed when, over the summer, this news broke. The report came out from ABMU, yet we were not afforded a written statement at that time. But the week before we came back, we had a written statement. We need to have an oral statement from the health Secretary on this, so that we can ask him pertinent questions as to what Healthcare Inspectorate Wales will do now, because if Healthcare Inspectorate Wales are not looking at this report, and not taking their own evidence, then it will not be good enough and we will need to raise these questions again. But I would urge the Government, for the sake of open democracy, when we’re celebrating devolution, in the name of open democracy, for us to be able to have an oral statement from the health Secretary.

The second question I wanted to ask was with regard to young carers. We had a very positive debate before the end of term, and the Minister said that she was talking to young carers groups. I’ve been told since that many YMCAs across Wales don’t feel that they’ve been engaged, or they would like to be engaged with that process. So, I was wondering if we could have a statement updating us on what the Minister is doing on young carers, so that we can all be involved in that particular process.

Photo of Jane Hutt Jane Hutt Labour 2:34, 19 September 2017

Thank you for those two questions. Just following up and adding to the points that the First Minister made in response to this review: of course you will have seen the written statement issued by the Cabinet Secretary on 15 September, and I think it’s important just to refer to that statement that he made. As he says in the statement, ‘I want to be satisfied’, in terms of ABMU specifically, because this is lessons to be learnt wider than that,

‘I want to be satisfied that appropriate actions have been identified by the health board and that their response is sufficiently robust. I also wish to be assured that there are effective arrangements in place across the organisation to monitor the implementation and embedding of any changes in policies and procedures.’

And, of course, as you know, Healthcare Inspectorate Wales has been asked to undertake an independent assessment, and he will update Members when that report is received.

On your second question, yes, clearly, we had a very positive debate. I know that the Minister will want to engage with Members and the appropriate committee in terms of taking forward positive actions in terms of supporting our young carers.

Photo of Hannah Blythyn Hannah Blythyn Labour 2:35, 19 September 2017

Leader of the house, following on from the joint statement from the Welsh Government, Flintshire County Council and Flint Town Council earlier this month that proposals for an art installation at Flint castle will not be proceeding as previously planned, can I ask for a statement in this place from Welsh Government, updating plans for going forward for future investment in Flint castle, and also that that gives an absolute guarantee that investment earmarked for Flint still goes to Flint, and that the community of Flint are actively involved in determining the future nature of that investment?

Photo of Jane Hutt Jane Hutt Labour 2:36, 19 September 2017

Thank you, Hannah Blythyn, and I think you can be assured on all those points in terms of the Cabinet Secretary’s support for this. We’ve acknowledged that the proposal for the iron ring sculpture at Flint castle isn’t appropriate to go forward. And there’s been extremely constructive and productive meetings with local people and stakeholders about this, in terms of cancelling the project. The investment is going to be used and I’m assured that it’s ring-fenced for the art work, to help develop a wider master plan for the foreshore, taking into account, of course, the views of local people. This will include a range of capital investments for the area, holding events and activities, to increase the understanding of the history of the castle, and the significance of the foreshore. But, of course, Flintshire County Council and Flint Town Council will be involved in that, seeing this master plan is a high priority.

Photo of Mr Simon Thomas Mr Simon Thomas Plaid Cymru 2:37, 19 September 2017

Can I ask for a response from the business manager on two items of Government business? First of all, can I ask whether the Welsh Government intends to produce a statement on the situation in Catalonia at the moment? The Scottish Government produced a statement two or three days ago. The situation in Catalonia is looking very fraught.

The background is that the Catalunyan Government, with the support of the Catalunyan Parliament, has called a referendum on independence for 1 October. The Spanish Government has not engaged with this process at all, and has sought to undermine the process at every step. And I think for those of us who are in this place because of referenda—who had the agreement on the future of the UK, a referendum last year, and, two years ago, a referendum around the future of Scotland, all agreed through the Edinburgh agreement, and other agreements, as part of the way a parliamentary democracy takes the way forward—it is extremely worrying to hear the news from Catalunya now. There are things like the physical and obvious movement of armoured vehicles up and down the roads in and around Barcelona, the capital city, and immediate threats to prosecute over 600 town and city mayors who called for a referendum. We’re not talking about people who are calling for independence here; we’re talking about people who simply say they should have the right to self-determination according to the UN charter, and some of them have said, ‘We’ll have a referendum, but I’ll be voting “no”, but they’re still threatened by prosecution by the Spanish state. And a particular threat, only this week, to withdraw funding from the Catalunyan Government—directly withdraw the funding that allows devolution to work within the Spanish state. This is not, I would suggest, how we deal with challenges around identity and independence and referenda in the EU, or indeed the history of the United Kingdom—our recent history on this has been very obvious and clear for everyone.

So, I would hope that the Welsh Government would issue a written statement in support of what’s been said by the Scottish Government; other parliaments and governments have said similar statements within the EU as well. I think the people of Catalunya would very much welcome that support. And I would remind Members of the important role that Catalunya played in the Spanish civil war, and the strong attachments many of us have, as Catalunya was where a lot of the Welsh fighters went and fought at that time.

I also hope that we as a parliament can come together—. It’s a separate issue. I know that she’s the business manager for the Welsh Government, but I hope that we as a parliament can also sign a letter of support to the principle of making these decisions—not ‘yes’ or ‘no’ to independence as such, but the principle of allowing a parliament and a government to make a decision to take cognisance of its people’s views through a referendum. So, I very much hope that the Government can be really positive around that call.

If I can now turn to something much more parochial, Presiding Officer, and just remind the Chamber that on 11 July, just before we broke up, the education Cabinet Secretary, Kirsty Williams, made a statement here saying that she intended to raise tuition fees in Wales and that was a signal that she’d persuaded the Labour Cabinet, of course, to adopt the very successful Lib Dem policy on tuition fees. So, I would now like to know from the business manager, because I fail to see it in the next three weeks, when we will be discussing and voting upon the statutory instruments that will bring in the rise in tuition fees in Wales. I really look forward to her other role, as whip, to see her dragoon her backbenches to vote for a tuition fee rise here in Wales when, of course, they so successfully opposed it with the DUP’s support in the House of Commons only last week, and had Jeremy Corbyn and all his supporters dancing on the street at this great victory for holding down tuition fees in England. So, let’s see if we can replicate that victory here in Wales. Will she have the courage to bring a statutory instrument to this Chamber so that we can all vote upon it? And perhaps some of us can vote in line with Labour Party policy.

Photo of Jane Hutt Jane Hutt Labour 2:41, 19 September 2017

Well, I think, on your first question, Simon Thomas, indeed, of course, Wales does have very strong links—historical, cultural and economic—with Catalonia and there are no plans at present for a statement. I think you read the point well in terms of the development this afternoon. I also think that we note your points in terms of what are our pioneering higher education and further education funding policies. We note your point.

Photo of Huw Irranca-Davies Huw Irranca-Davies Labour 2:42, 19 September 2017

I’m sure the business manager is aware of the private Member’s Bill going through the House of Commons at the moment in the name of the MP for Rhondda, Chris Bryant. It’s based on the Protect the Protectors campaign, looking at increasing—strengthening—the legislation, the education, the workforce protection for not only members of the police services dealing with emergency incidents, but also those fire services, paramedics and others. I declare an interest as well, as my wife works as an accident and emergency department radiographer on busy nights. Too often those also see the evidence of violent assaults within their work and it shouldn’t be acceptable.

The reason I ask for a consideration of a written statement by the relevant Cabinet Secretary on this is that it would enable the Welsh Government to show its support for the principles behind this, but also to outline, should this Bill fail, because there have previously been attempts to bring through, in effect, a protect the protectors Bill within Westminster—. The first attempt was by Holly Lynch under the guise of a ten-minute rule Bill back in February this year, and now it’s proceeding—and we hope, successfully—under the MP for Rhondda’s name. But if it isn’t to succeed, I’m sure there is scope for the Welsh Government and the Welsh Assembly, within its devolved competences, particularly in the areas of public services, to look at what we could do if the UK Government and the UK Parliament were not willing to give good passage to the Bill being taken forward in the MP for Rhondda’s name. So, I ask for a consideration of a written statement in due course by the Welsh Government about how they could support the principles and possibly look at our alternative within Wales.

Photo of Jane Hutt Jane Hutt Labour 2:43, 19 September 2017

Well, I thank Huw Irranca-Davies for bringing that to our attention. We know there have been some very pioneering backbencher Bills, some of which—. Julie Morgan took one through in terms of sunbed legislation when she was a Member of Parliament. I think we need to look at this—it’s very relevant, obviously, to our workforce here in Wales—and look at the protect our protectors private Member’s Bill and I’m sure the Cabinet Secretary will want to see lessons to be learnt or what we take forward if it doesn’t succeed.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 2:44, 19 September 2017

(Translated)

I thank the leader of the house.