Questions now from the party spokespeople. Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Bethan Jenkins.

Thank you. My first question is with regard to Grenfell and I’ve asked many questions on it here in the Chamber, and you have, to be fair, sent us regular updates as requested over the summer about what you are doing in relation to Grenfell on a Wales level. On 25 August, it emerged that some private high-rise apartment buildings in Cardiff, such as those at Prospect Place, had failed cladding safety tests. You did send us that information, but I was wondering whether you could provide us with further updates on the private sector in particular, because you did tell Assembly Members before recess that it was not only you as Cabinet Secretary who was looking at this in relation to private flats, but that your Cabinet Secretary for the economy would be talking to hotels and such also. So, I’m confident that we can have a grasp of the housing within the Welsh Government’s parameters, but I want to be assured that in relation to new flats—because they’re being built all the time—and the ones that have been flagged as problematic, you are able to give us a further update here today.

I’m grateful for the Member’s question. I did, as the Member suggested, issue statements right the way through the summer when we were updated in discussions with the UK Government. I was on a multi-agency conference call with the UK yesterday on the issue, following up on actions following on from Grenfell. In Wales—I can’t find the number in my briefing, but I will write to Members wholesale in terms of identification of private buildings over seven storeys with aluminium composite material products. I think it’s seven, but I will clarify that for the Member. All local authorities have been working very well with their local agencies, so that’s private landlords, hotels, et cetera, to see where ACM may be present. The same principle applies. We are working with the private sector to make sure residents are fully informed, residents feel as safe as they possibly can, and the fire service is giving support in that mechanism as well. So, this is a difficult time, but we believe, as all of the UK—Scottish colleagues I talked to yesterday as well. We have a similar action point, taking this forward.

And on the same theme, in response to a short debate by Dawn Bowden in May in relation to electrical safety—obviously, this is pertinent here because a washing machine was involved in the situation involving the fire at Grenfell—you said that you would be commissioning research in Wales into fires caused by electricity. I want to know what’s happening with that research and who you will be engaging with it. When will that be updated to AMs? Because I know from a letter that I’ve seen to Electrical Safety First, from you on 27 July, that you said that you will, and I quote, ‘be in touch should their advice be necessary.’ I would have thought it would be integral, would it not, to get advice from an organisation like that, that specialises in electrical safety. I would urge you now, here today, Cabinet Secretary, to meet with them to hear their concerns, because they are very proactive in this field, and to come up with that piece of research that Dawn Bowden and others have called for.

I would just caution the Member, first of all, on her—. She’s correct in saying that there was an electrical device in the flat that was in Grenfell, but there is a full inquiry going on there and we have to ensure that we have all the details of that. I think the building was also compromised in other ways, but that will become clear through the inquiry. With regard to the letter that the Member raises with me, I have letters from experts in all sorts of fields every day. What is really important is that we have a co-ordinated approach, and that’s why, working with the UK, Scotland and Wales on these very issues, we are getting feedback on whether the electrical testing facilities that we have in place are adequate for the requirements that we are needing for evidencing whether that’s true. What I will do is, as I said to you earlier on, continue to update Members, in particular around electrical safety, and I will send the letter to all Members in the near future.

Thank you. Well, I would hope that if you get letters from experts, you use their expertise. I think that all I’m trying to say is that, obviously, they have that expertise to offer, and they do have an open door towards speaking to you.

I wanted to move on to housing. I’ve been talking about social housing quite a lot recently. I wanted to ask a question in relation to updating homes that are currently in private hands, but are going into disrepair. It’s something that we could be utilising much more to increase our stock on a local level. I know that you have the Houses into Homes scheme, loans for people to update their properties, and that local councils have empty dwelling management orders in relation to taking those properties in in a cohesive way. I’m wondering if you could give us an update on those particular schemes, and tell us how many private homes have, therefore, been taken over in this way or updated from the loan structures, so that we can add to the stock that we need here in Wales to build those homes, and to try and take away from some of the eyesores on our streets, which are animating people’s everyday lives, because they see them in disrepair, every day, and we really need to get those houses into proper homes, so that people in our communities can utilise them to the best effect.

Of course, the Member is right to raise this issue. We’ve had great success with the Houses into Homes scheme, where the money recirculates back into the system and purchases more homes. I would encourage local authorities to use the management orders, where properties are empty and becoming a blight on their community, to enforce that. We also introduced a council tax scheme around second homes, where that can be used also as an additional levy to raise cash, to stimulate people to thinking about what are they going to do with that property. I will update the Members with the numbers—I don’t have them to hand, but I will ensure the Member is made aware of them—the current position we find ourselves in.

The Conservative spokesperson, Mark Isherwood.

Diolch, Llywydd. We heard at Citizens Advice Flintshire’s annual general meeting this summer that the Welsh Government was moving to the commissioning of advice services. I wonder whether you could say a little bit more about that, and confirm how you will ensure that organisations operating in Wales providing critical work—not only the larger ones, but the smaller ones—in terms of crisis intervention and support are protected against the larger organisations operating in England and elsewhere in the UK, who, on a pure cost basis, are likely to undercut organisations in Wales.

I’m very conscious of the difficulty that some smaller organisations have in commissioning, but we will look very specifically around the criteria expected on that, about having local connections, and making sure that they can deliver good, quality services.

I would like to give confidence to the Member around reassuring him, and others, about the funding mechanism in place. But, of course, budgets are extremely tight at the moment, and the budget process is coming up, of course. Where services are affordable, we will deliver them, and I hope that we can give confidence to some of the smaller organisations that the criteria around that will not disadvantage them.

Thank you. Well, in the context of both the budget process and the Bevan Foundation latest ‘state of Wales’ briefing, published at the end of July, which said Wales has the third highest poverty rate in the UK, behind only London and the west midlands, with ‘little change in the headline rate’, how do you respond to the Public Policy Institute for Wales August report, ‘Participatory Budgeting: An Evidence Review’? They highlighted Porto Alegre in Brazil as the birthplace of participatory budgeting, saying the process there

‘has fundamentally changed the relationship between citizen and state, improved the functioning of government and led to improved public services and infrastructure.’

But, in Wales to date, the use of participatory budgeting

‘has been more modest, and the impact has, as a result, been smaller.’

And they recommend that, in Wales,

‘the focus in the short term might usefully be on laying the foundations’ of participatory budgeting in future budgets, alongside the use of other forms of engagement or consultation that signal an intention to promote greater public awareness of, and involvement in, the Welsh Government’s spending decisions. What consideration will you be giving to their findings?

Well, I find their comments, as always, very interesting. What I would suggest is that the Welsh Government has been very proactive in this space. By legislating the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015, we’ve put a duty on public bodies to have engagement with communities and interested parties. So, I would disagree with the fact Wales is behind the curve here; actually, we’ve legislated prior to any other country doing that.

I think more the issue is that Porto Alegre, which piloted this, is clearly ahead of the curve, and has quantifiable outcomes that can be looked at. And what this is is part of a broader agenda, which I hope you might look at and embrace.

My final question is to move to housing in the context of communities. As you know, Community Housing Cymru signed a compact with the Welsh Government and the Welsh Local Government Association last December, underpinned by a commitment for housing associations to work in partnership to maximise housing delivery for the local area. What reciprocal responsibility lies with local authorities to work with housing associations to ensure that their resources also maximise social housing delivery for the local area?

Well, the compact changed last year, so it includes now the Welsh Local Government Association. So, local authorities are very keen to ensure that they work with housing associations even where stock retention has remained in some local authorities, like where the Member lives. So, there is operational work between the authority, registered social landlords that work in the area, and Government. That’s what the compact was all about, and it’s extended to a tripartite agreement now.

UKIP spokesperson, Gareth Bennett.

Diolch, Llywydd. Good afternoon, Minister, and welcome back to the Chamber. Yesterday, one of your backbench Members, Hefin David, raised the issue of the remediation of brownfield sites. Now, I realise that brownfield sites can be problematic to develop, but there are some brownfield sites that can be prepared for housing relatively cheaply. So, I wondered what involvement your department has currently with the development of brownfield sites for housing.

I work very closely with my Cabinet colleagues, in particular, Ken Skates and Lesley Griffiths, on the issue of bringing housing opportunities forward. Brownfield sites is one of those areas we have discussions about, as with all other land opportunities that my colleagues around the Cabinet table can bring to the table, including the health sector.

You’ve mentioned this before. When I did Minister’s questions with you for the first time in April, you mentioned your ongoing discussions with Ken Skates’s department and the possible use of Welsh Government land for brownfield housing development, and you suggested at that time that there were—at least, I took the suggestion to be that there were—many redundant NHS buildings that could be used in that capacity. So, do you have any more details on how this process is ongoing, and how close you are to developing any of these possible sites?

I’ve had several offers of land from Ken Skates, the Minister for infrastructure, and we are working through those on the affordability of delivery now, and looking at other partners. I will be announcing shortly a decision on the innovative housing schemes, which will include new opportunities for developments across Wales, which I believe are quite exciting, and the sector is looking forward to that.

Thanks. Oddly, my next question was on your £20 million innovation scheme, which you’ve now mentioned yourself. Obviously, your announcement is coming shortly. Is there anything you can give us here today regarding that scheme?

Well, I think there’s a huge opportunity. I saw some of the submissions that came through; the closing date was Friday of last week. Some are very innovative about power house-type homes—build a home that produces electricity, so there’s no energy bills to the consumer but added value to the grid. Some of it’s about modular units for the under 35s. So, there is a whole host of opportunities there, but I will make a statement to the Chamber once I’ve decided what the allocation should be.