The next item, therefore, is the motion to approve the Assembly Commission’s budget for 2018-19, and I call on Suzy Davies to move the motion on behalf of the Commission.

Motion NDM6564 Suzy Davies

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 20.16:

Agrees the budget of the Assembly Commission for 2018-19, as specified in Table 1 of the 'National Assembly for Wales Assembly Commission Budget 2018-19', laid before the Assembly on 7 November 2017 and that it be incorporated in the Annual Budget Motion under Standing Order 20.26(ii).

Motion moved.

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. I move the Commission's budget motion for 2018-19 and ask that it be incorporated into the annual budget motion.

The budget for 2018-19, the third year of this fifth Assembly, is a budget—. In that budget, the Commission is seeking £56.1 million, and it's made up of three components: £35.5 million for Commission services; £16.2 for the remuneration board's determination; and £4.4 million for non-cash budgets. This budget will ensure that the Commission can address the challenges that face the Assembly imminently and in the longer term, and properly support the delivery of our strategic goals, while being mindful of the wider public sector financial position.

The Commission exists to support the Assembly and Assembly Members, and we recognise that the pressures on Assembly Members are greater than ever, with a demanding range of work for committees and Plenary, intensified by further constitutional change, tax-raising powers and managing the exit from the EU. The legislative, financial and scrutiny responsibilities of our very small number of elected Members—there are just 44 of us, or maybe 46, who are able to do this work—are unique and paramount, so it is critical that we maintain the delivery of excellent services to support Members as you discharge those responsibilities.

It's not just the immediate pressures. The Llywydd has set out the Commission's plans to make our Parliament fit for the future, giving young people a voice in our democracy, communicating effectively with the public, and fulfilling our statutory duty to enable the Assembly to undertake its legislative and scrutiny work, including taking forward work to address the capacity of the Assembly. 

Wales needs good government, and good government can only be delivered when it is improved, scrutinised and held to account by an effective parliament. We have new legislative powers in this area. The Commission must do what's necessary to equip this Parliament with the capacity to deliver a strong and sustainable democracy. As you will appreciate, this work is only just beginning. As we move forward, the Commission will continue to consider the budget implications and come back to the Assembly for your scrutiny by the Finance Committee, this annual debate, and subsequently through Public Accounts Committee and any other forms that are reasonable and suggested to us.

Returning to the budget we're considering today, I would like to thank the Finance Committee for its scrutiny. As a publicly funded organisation, the Commission must consistently demonstrate that it uses resources efficiently and effectively. The committee's scrutiny is an important part of that, so we approach the process with the aim of being clear, open and transparent, and that scrutiny helps the Commission get better at meeting that aim.

The committee made 10 recommendations, all of which we addressed positively in our response. In our budget strategy, we provided indicative figures for the remainder of this fifth Assembly. The strategy, published in 2016, set the context for the commission's budget for the remaining years of the fifth Assembly. The commission, having reviewed and further scrutinised this strategy, agrees that it is still justified. But it also recognises that, in the remaining years of this Assembly, the commission's budget should not be in excess of any changes to the Welsh block grant. The commission accepts that any future budget request must be proportionate to the changes in the Welsh block, and, indeed, has sought to maintain such proportionality in previous years, even at times of heightened ambition. In formulating future budget requests, the commission will need to take account of any variation in the Welsh block as a consequence of new tax-raising powers, and deal with proportionality, taking that into account.

The draft budget did include a request for a ring-fenced sum of money to be used for developing potential new accommodation needs, only to be drawn down if necessary. This is in line with improving transparency and advising the Assembly of any high-cost decisions that might, but not definitely, arise in the forthcoming year. Two of the Finance Committee recommendations relate to this issue, and the committee has asked instead that we submit a supplementary budget to separately present the case for any such investment, should the commission determine that we wish to pursue this. The recommendations are agreed, and we have amended our budget accordingly.

Three of the recommendations are linked to commission staff resources, information has been requested about the increase in staff numbers over the past 10 years, and on benchmarking against other legislatures. A recommendation was made that there should be no change to the number of full-time equivalent posts in the Assembly in 2018-19. Going forward, within the agreed established ceiling, the commission will endeavour to maintain effective levels of service in support of Members and public engagement. And, to help with that, the commission is currently undertaking a capacity review—an exercise that began in mid September—and the committee has requested to see the results of that exercise in a formal paper, which we have agreed.

Three other recommendations referred to the budget approach to prioritisation under transparency, and we agreed those as well.

So, finally, I want to assure Members that we will continue to work in a way that delivers value for money, and to strive to be as efficient as possible, whilst providing all Members with a high-quality service to support us all, effectively, in our roles.

Thank you.

I call on Simon Thomas to speak on behalf of the Finance Committee.

Thank you very much, Llywydd. I thank Suzy Davies for opening this debate this afternoon, and also for appearing before the Finance Committee, so that this draft budget could be scrutinised, and responding so positively to the recommendations of the Finance Committee. It was good to hear that the recommendations were accepted, and I’m looking forward to co-operating with the Commission in the way that further information is presented, and in the way that the future budget is scrutinised.

I just want to start by explaining one point that is important in this context. In responding to our report in a letter, the Commissioner, Suzy Davies, does say that the draft budget was proposed in the context of the five-year budget strategy—which has just been referred to—that was previously presented, scrutinised and recommended. I think it is important to note that the Finance Committee did not recommend any strategy in terms of funding. Indeed, what we said in our report last year was the following:

‘due to the current uncertainty in many areas, it would be inappropriate to provide a comment on the spending plans beyond 2017-18.’

So, I think it is very clear that we only approve the budget per year, and so I want to explain that, because I think that has caused some of the disagreement that has stemmed from some items in the budget.

Having said that, we need to be clear that the budget before us does ask for an increase that is above inflation, and above the expected increase in the Welsh block grant. Whilst we have stopped short of recommending changes to the requested increase for the next financial year, the committee firmly believes that, for the remaining years of this Assembly, the Commission’s budget should not be in excess of any changes to the Welsh block grant.

Against a backdrop of continued cuts to public services, we believe it is hard to justify any increase in the Assembly’s spending. As an Assembly we must recognise that any increase given to the Commission—in our names—is taken from the Welsh consolidated fund, and this impacts on other public services in Wales. So, I welcome the fact, or the way in which the Commissioner has set out the way in which she and the Commission, over the next few years, will deal with a very difficult issue for everyone in Wales in terms of the budget.

Another key recommendation in our report, as has been mentioned, was the removal of the request for £700,000 to progress a planning application for a new building. Should funding be required for that, it should be requested through a future supplementary budget or budget motion. I am pleased that the Commission has agreed this recommendation. We’ve also recommended that we need more details for every Member and every group in this place before the Commission asks for more funding for a new building. I think that a new building, or the possibility of that, needs to be discussed fully, and every Member needs to have the opportunity to understand the rationale behind that request.

The context of this is that the Commission spent £1.9 million last year on a ground-floor refurbishment—the new committee rooms that you’re familiar with by now. As a committee we struggled to understand why so much money was spent less than a year ago when the possibility of a new building was already being considered—although not by the majority of Assembly Members, I have to say. This refurbishment has been funded mainly from the underspend from the remuneration board determination, and decisions such as this mean that we, as a committee, are taking an additional interest in the way that funding is used. 

The use of underspend from the remuneration board determination has been of concern to the committee for some time, and is the basis for a number of our recommendations in the past. We recognise that the Commission has taken on board our previous recommendations, and that the draft budget includes an underspend forecast for the year and details of how the remuneration underspend and other savings may be allocated in-year.

Additionally, as we state in our report, we’re not comfortable that the Commission’s budget relies on a projected underspend to fund priority areas of work, particularly as some of these areas are classed as ‘obligatory’. We question why obligatory requirements are being funded from a possible underspend, rather than being given certainty in the main budget. We remain concerned that this approach to budgeting lacks transparency and clarity. As we mention in our report, we now intend to undertake a short inquiry to establish how other Parliaments budget for spending related to Members’ pay and allowances. 

The committee is supportive of the work under way to review capacity within the organisation in order to inform future discussions about the resources needed to deliver the Commission’s priorities. We believe that as part of the review, the Chief Executive and Clerk should ensure that existing resources are maximised, and we look forward to receiving details on the outcome of the review, as has just been promised by the Commissioner. We look forward, therefore, over the next few months, to co-operating with the Commission in order to ensure that the budgeting methods for the future have the broadest possible support in this place.

I call on Suzy Davies to respond.

Diolch yn fawr. Can I just thank you again, Simon, and the Finance Committee, for your careful consideration of the Commission's budget? I noted your comments about the five-year multi-annual budget, if I can put it like that. It is fair to say that, of course, the Finance Committee knew what we were proposing for the next five years, and of course I'd acknowledge the point that, at some point, we may need to change those figures in light of changing priorities. The fact that we were able to stick to the figures we gave you last year, I think, is some evidence of the attempt we have made as a Commission to really tighten our corsets rather than loosen them, being, as I said earlier, always mindful of the wider public sector financial position. 

Will you take an intervention?

By all means.

Would you not accept that the commission of this Assembly cannot be immune from the austerity that the rest of the public sector in Wales is facing?

It's certainly not immune to needing to make efficiencies where it possibly can make them, and you'll have noted, being a member of the committee, that efficiencies have been made, initially in staffing, and certainly in contracts over the previous years. But we're also in a position, as you heard during my opening remarks, where this Assembly, this parliament, is taking on huge new responsibilities, some of them coming via legislation, and some of them coming through the general ambition that we all have for this to be a world-class parliament. I think it is worth pointing out that this budget is 0.35 per cent of the whole of the Welsh block grant. That doesn't mean that it's not worth the most thorough of scrutiny. But as I mentioned earlier, there are just 44 of us to scrutinise the remaining 99.65 per cent of that block grant, and we need the excellent parliamentary support to enable us to do that effectively because we are so small in number. For example, legislation takes as much effort and work for 3 million people as it would for 30 million people. And it needs as much scrutiny, whether there are 44 of us or over 100 of us. The fewer of us there are, the greater our call on the central support of the Commission. I'd like to take this opportunity to record my thanks to the staff of the Commission and all the parliamentary support services for their dedication and for going that extra mile.

The greatest challenge, I think, for this Commission will be to ensure that the Assembly, charged as it is with greater responsibility, as I mentioned, is properly equipped to do the job. If you have any complaints about what local government is getting, that is a matter for Welsh Government, and I would like us to use our tiny budget in order to improve parliamentary services to help us scrutinise that Welsh Government budget properly.

Our aim remains to set and maintain high standards during a time of close public scrutiny and to enhance our reputation as an international, open, world-class parliamentary institution. On behalf of the Llywydd and my fellow Commissioners, I give a full and sincere promise that we do all we can to use our resources, provided by this budget, to ensure that we meet those challenges in the most efficient way possible.

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? The motion is therefore agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.