Public Sector Pay

3. Topical Questions – in the Senedd on 22 November 2017.

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Photo of Leanne Wood Leanne Wood Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

1. Will the Cabinet Secretary make a statement on the impact of the UK budget on public sector pay in Wales? 70

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 2:59, 22 November 2017

I thank Leanne Wood for that question. The Welsh Government has consistently called on the UK Government to end the pay cap and to provide the additional funding needed to do so. No sums of money for that purpose flow to Wales in the figures published in today's budget.

Photo of Leanne Wood Leanne Wood Plaid Cymru

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. In today's UK budget announcement, the Chancellor stated that UK Government departments could begin lifting the public sector pay cap, depending on the decision of the pay review bodies. The note on public sector pay issued by the Treasury today states in this instance that pay is the responsibility of the devolved Government in Wales. They are expecting you to make a decision on this.

Now, I've previously asked the Labour Welsh Government to take action on the public sector pay cap, either lifting it in full or starting within the NHS, and, to date, your Government has refused to do that, preferring to wait, as you've just said, for the Conservative UK Government to take action. This course of inaction on your behalf means that Wales, under Labour, could become the only devolved nation that is committed to keeping the pay cap on our nurses, NHS staff and public sector workers. This will, in effect, keep nurses in poverty, hold wages down and damage morale.

You stated in December 2016 that Wales now has, and I quote, 'long-term, fair funding' through the fiscal framework. So, I ask you today: when will you contact the pay review bodies as Cabinet Secretary responsible for the pay cap, and will you follow Plaid Cymru's proposal by announcing plans to start implementing above-inflation pay rises in the public sector, beginning in April 2018?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 3:00, 22 November 2017

Llywydd, let me be clear about the Welsh Government's position: we are committed to lifting the pay cap, and I've said that time after time. I will follow Plaid Cymru's proposals very closely, and I will follow them with more attention when the leader of Plaid Cymru is able to say where she will take the money from in order to implement the policy to which she is attached. Because without money coming from—[Interruption.] Without money coming from the UK Treasury to lift the pay cap, for which they are responsible, the only way that could be funded in Wales is by taking money away from other public services. That is not a course of action that I think is supported here in Wales. We will lift the pay cap as soon as money to do so flows to Wales in the way it should to allow us to do so, and we have made a public commitment, which I repeat this afternoon, that every penny that comes to Wales in order to lift the pay cap will be spent for that purpose.

People who believe that Welsh money should be spent for that purpose, rather than UK money, which is what should be spent for it, have a responsibility not to say things in general, but to tell Welsh people absolutely specifically where they would take that money from—

Photo of Leanne Wood Leanne Wood Plaid Cymru 3:02, 22 November 2017

This is nurses being paid, nurses' money.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour

—where they would take that money from, which hospital they will take it from, which school they will take it from, which part of the Welsh public sector will that money come from. When you're prepared to answer that question, then you'll be entitled to be taken seriously.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary.